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When told such a single-payer model would eliminate private insurance plans, that overall support dropped to 52% — still well ahead of the 37% favorability seen in the 2020 survey.
That's weird to me. Are people really that impressed with their private insurance plans? Because I've had several private plans in my life and none of them were better than Medicare, for the price.
Are people really that impressed with their private insurance plans?
No, its just the people, generally, are dumb as fuck. They barely know what words mean, let alone what they communicate when they come together into sentences.
It is about years and years and years of propaganda.
Ol' Ronnie Raygun even cut an LP warning of the "dangers" of "socialized medicine"...back in - I wish I was kidding - 1961. And the propaganda against it goes back to decades before that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Speaks_Out_Against_Socialized_Medicine
ugh
Reagan warns that if his listeners do not stop the proposed medical program, "behind it will come other government programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country until one day as Norman Thomas said we will wake to find that we have socialism." Under this scenario, Reagan says, "We are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children, what it once was like in America when men were free."
I got nausea reading this webpage.
"pretty soon your son won't decide when he's in school, where he will go or what he will do for a living. He will wait for the government to tell him."
boke
This is a key bit of history, probably one of the dominoes that led to Dump. This album helped to give Ronnie his start in politics. Which ultimately led to him being in the WH for eight years. At that point, his administration was objectively the most criminal administration in history. This culminated in Iran/Contra, which was worse than Watergate, but mostly was glossed over, with his VP becoming President, and Ronnie Raygun getting to skate completely.
The conservatives did a huge amount of damage to everything under his watch, paving the way for hate radio and Faux.
The Republicans didn't pay any real cost for his crimes and spent the 90s trying to get their favorite criminal's name on virtually everything and retconning virtually anything associated with Ronnie Raygun....all while building alternative information outlets to erode trust in democracy and democratic institutions and government in general...
So much about where we are at goes back to Raygun (and Nixon).
It might be an elitist thing. If everyone has the same healthcare, you don't get to feel superior about your superior insurance plan.
Most private insurance is totally ass, but if you work for a company that offers higher-quality insurance plans and you can afford to pay the highest premiums, then you have highly privileged healthcare access. They might be worried about losing that, or having to compete with the poors to get an appointment for stuff that they currently can't afford.
Can't imagine it would account for a 14 point drop, but then again some people are stupid and will come out against something that would benefit them just because they worship the rich or whatever.
Cool, let anyone who wants to opt out, and everyone who doesn’t is automatically signed up, just like how many nations automatically sign you up as a voter or for healthcare. Don’t want to have govt healthcare? Cool, you’re free to stay on private insurance that will skyrocket and collapse soon as the world adapts to a better system. We gotta stop letting malignant narcissists, sadists and the brainwashed ruin everything for everyone else.
I've lived in 4 European countries, and none had the option to "opt out" of health care coverage (other than being an illegal resident). It makes no sense to have that option anyway, it's like being able to opt out of paying taxes for education.
In pretty much all European countries you can still get private insurance if you want to. And some people do for various reasons. The difference is that if something happens with your private insurance, like you can't pay anymore or whatever you still have the public insurance to fall back on. Just because everyone gets public insurance doesn't mean private one is banned on something.
In fact, in a few European countries the system is more private and doesn't even have the equivalent of Medicare or Medicaid.
It's just regulated in a somewhat less moronic way than the US health care system.
It makes sense if opting out means you don't get national insurance.
When they show up in the ER with a heart attack they're going to get treatment we can't pay for and we'll be right back to square one with all of this shit
Also, nobody gave me the option to opt out of paying for the bombs out dumbass military drops on schools and other civilian infrastructure, don't know why this is any different
Fair enough.
Even then it doesn't make sense. The cost for people not having insurance, even if they don't want it, is borne by society, and is generally higher than if they did have insurance.
As the world adapts? What do you mean by this?
Yet they will continue to vote for idiots who are deeply against it. Shocking.
wait wait wait, you're telling me people already stretched to the limit DON'T want to pay $900 a month for insulin, or if they get sick, going BANKRUPT?!?!?
They don't want their tax dollars paying for other people's health care. No joke, this is a Republican argument against it.
What they fail to realize is that private insurance works the exact same way. All the money is pooled.
Another reason is the "death panels", again failing to realize that private insurance is already doing that.
I regularly make this argument, that they essentially have medicare for some* already, except there's a middleman, and he takes a MASSIVE cut.
Except it's not for all. They get all of the downsides but few of the upsides.
It's like they're paying for something, not receiving what they paid for, and being told they don't want what they're paying for in the first place. Expect they're also wildly overpaying.
yup. I agree completely. They're getting screwed
How long before most Americans realize what they want doesn’t fucking matter?
The Greatest Democracy on Earth.
Elections are literally one month from now. This matters, so stop derailing.
People shouldn't need to be involved with paying for their necessary healthcare at all. Just show up get treated and leave. Providers can bill the government and fight it out if something was found to be unnecessary. Leave the patient out of it.
That's how it's done in Spain (and mottbof the EU, I imagine).
Nobody has given a shit about what we think for a long time
When told such a single-payer model would eliminate private insurance plans, that overall support dropped to 52%
Stockholm Syndrome was always fake and a lie so what the fuck is wrong with these idiots?
Give people a smelly gym sock and let them hold it for five minutes and they'll reflexively try to stop you from taking it back. Getting over 50% yes to a survey question that says "and then we will take something away from you" is honestly pretty crazy.
Except that it wouldn't. Private insurance would just have to find a way to be competitive.
Japan's system is single-payer and definitely better than the US system in every interaction I've had. I say this as someone who used to work in US Healthcare IT on a few occasions.
There should be some system in place to help the people whose jobs would be lost by cutting all of the extra stuff out. Some may survive if, like many countries, the US allows private options, but a lot of jobs would be made redundant by this.
There should be some system in place to help the people whose jobs would be lost by cutting all of the extra stuff out.
We have systems of unemployment insurance and other kinds of welfare programs. I definitely agree those should be stepped up in general for everyone, but I don't know why these specific people would deserve anything beyond what we normally do for people who lose their jobs.
I fully agree it should be better for everyone. Why I think the case is special is the potentially high number of joblessness at once often also located in certain condensed areas. It would also potentially have knock-on effects to other businesses and city services.
I’ve been seeing this headline more or less my entire adult life, it doesn’t necessarily do any good when people vehemently against it keep getting elected.
Still remarkably low,
When told such a single-payer model would eliminate private insurance plans
There are medicare advantage supplements provided by private insurance that would continue. I'm sure the only people who like private health insurance are ones where employer is paying the majority share.
The best question would be would you prefer an after tax raise as a result of M4A? (based on following table)
| Coverage Type | Average Employee Share | Average Employer Share | Total Annual Premium | |
|
|
|
| | Single Coverage | $1,440 | $7,885 | $9,325 | | Family Coverage | $6,850 | $20,143 | $26,993 |
where a 4% income tax surchage for a M4A plan that saves overall economy $1T, $60k salary would net $7500 as single plan, and $23500 in family plan in extra disposible income, when employer passes on their savings as extra salary.
$1T in savings also means $1T in additional disposible income for non-healthcare/insurance economy, and more employment/business profits in "useful economy" that multiplies to more economic growth.
So, the proper poll question is do you want a big after tax salary increase, with huge economic growth that gives you more job/raise opportunities, or do you want a corrupt extortion based healthcare system with private AI/death panels that denies you coverage?
Nit. Employers don’t pay for healthcare. People need to get over this mode of thinking.
A company hires you at a total compensation rate that include the salary they pay you, the contribution to your retirement, your health insurance, etc.
Think of it this way. The portion of the salary they COULD have paid you, they instead keep from you to pay for your health insurance.
It’s your money. You’re just delegating to them the responsibility of paying your insurance.
Once we get beyond this mode of thinking we can realize that we can, instead, delegate the government to pay for our health insurance.
Yes, the plan would have that compensation included somehow, to the workers who earn it or to the universal healthcare plan. This and a revenue system to fund it like successful places, benefits most people in cost and health. No more bankruptcies, like people still have with insurance. If the owners skip out on paying this worker compensation in the changeover, people are still more free to leave bad jobs with "good insurance" and do something else, start their own business, care for loved ones, more education, etc. It's win win for the vast majority of us when we look at the full picture! :)
Think of it this way. The portion of the salary they COULD have paid you, they instead keep from you to pay for your health insurance.
That's my core point. Unions also tend to prefer 30% higher cost health plans because its non taxable to their membership, and life being shittier for the rest of us, is reason to apply to join their union.
Once we get beyond this mode of thinking we can realize that we can, instead, delegate the government to pay for our health insurance.
Yes. And and both polls and "marketing" of M4A ignore this principle.
Of course, we have known this for decades and the support grows every year.
Voters also want higher minimum wage. It doesn't matter.
Voters also want term limits. It doesn't matter.
Voters also want no war and reduced military spending. It doesn't matter.
BoTh PaRtIeS know what the voters want, and they choose to do what Amazon wants instead for some unknown reason.
I wonder why? It is one of the greatest mysteries of science.
Doesn’t matter what the people want. The government is owned by corporate interests and oligarchs.
,,Across party lines"
,,66% of Republicans were opposed"
!?!
This might help look at some reasons that poll majority doesn't result in votes for it, and how to get this, which would be great, and with protections so maga doesn't ruin it if it ever starts and people see it's better than now. We can see how it improved lives where Medicaid expanded.
How does the psychological strain of artificial scarcity, like the threat of medical bankruptcy or social displacement, create a cognitive trap that drives people to vote against their own material needs and embrace exclusionary, fear-based politics instead of universal safety nets that could relieve their suffering?
It doesn't have to completely kill private.
Many countries combine the two with standard medical, and optional private for better terms (eg. single room, chief doctor, better dental).
Then there are the hybrid systems, like full public insurance through multiple insurers with private opt-outs under certain conditions (germany). Or full private but with single payee and standard coverage and legal guarantees of affordable insurance.
Then public systems with some capped self-pay component to encourage self-discipline and not running to the doc with every sniffle.
Honestly, almost any system is better than what the US has, which adds unnecessary cost and complexity at every stage.
That won't happen. Whatever emerges after fascism collapses will be so economically weak, years of deep austerity will be the future.