Yes the Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma had slaves and sided with the confederates due to self-preservation. Obviously not on the scale as the deep south and there was division in their ranks about that.
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Many indigenous societies practiced slave economies, regularly destroyed their own environment, waged brutal wars, massacred civilians, tortured captives, ritually sacrificed people, raped women, kidnapped children, performed cannibalism, and yes some even scalped people (though this one wasn't a native development but rather poetic revenge for colonists scalping them first) and other terrible things because they weren't oh-so-noble and honorable people who were somehow more moral than the colonizers. That perception of indigenous people is as much a racist stereotype as the ones that try to conflate all the above things with every tribe, city-state, nation, etc. and act like they were uniquely evil for doing these things and needed Good Christian Values™ to "civilize" them.
It is possible to recognize that these societies weren't perfect and to not romanticize them while also opposing their aggressive destruction at the hands of white supremacists, who either exaggerated their worst attributes or in some cases just made shit up to justify ethnic cleansing, segregation, and land theft. Whenever someone says something like "Native Americans owned slaves" it is not being brought up as a statement of fact or a tidbit of history but for the purpose of driving a wedge between indigenous and black people; just as when people bring up the Buffalo Soldiers and other black units that helped terrorize indigenous communities. They aren't mentioned these things in good faith, they're being racist and trying to turn marginalized communities against each other to keep them divided. Reactionaries do this because they fear a united front. This is an example of how identity politics get weaponized against the Left.
Exactly. Rehumanizing the oppressed means allowing them to have the complex agency humans possess.
Hi there I study pre-colonial mesoamerican archeology... It depends what society ur talking about.
If you're willing, could you please give a brief overview of those who did?
maybe they did and maybe hamas was mean those israeli ladies but that doesnt change anything
Maybe they wanted to be called civilized tribes? Five Civilized Tribes - Wikipedia
And if I may give you a suggestion. If you have a question like this, ask it at Lemmygrad or Hexbear. Avoid asking at Lemmy.ml.
I am sorry if my English is bad.
Your English is perfect, here. Please don't apologize even if it isn't. Wholly agree with asking here.
no. They had prison labor and restorative justice. Native American tribes that took prisoners in conflicts made them earn their keep. The prisoners were not owned by individuals. They were not seen as sub human and once they had earned the trust of the tribe and paid for whatever wrongs they had done they were integrated into the community.
Forced labor is still slavery.
There are other forms of slavery beyond the chattel slavery practiced by the Greco-Romans & Euro-Americans.
By that logic the USSR DPRK and PRC all are slave states because they made prisoners break rocks in the gulag.
Not all forced labor is slavery.
Forced labor isn't technically slavery in the same way serfdom isn't technically slavery and corvée isn't technically slavery and wage labor isn't technically slavery.
I'm far less concerned with the intricacies of it and exact definitions when compared to the actual practice itself.
What if it's forced but you still get paid?
Like 2 seconds of looking it up proves how bullshit this is and it's like les than 5% of Native Americans owned African slaves. And as far as IF Native Americans has Native American slaves... That's their own culture, which would have been their own to fix. It doesn't make what settlers did ok. That's like saying it would have been ok to genocide all of Rome, Greece, and tbh, most of the world at one point or another. Would the people saying this dumb bullshit if Moa wiped out all of Tibet? I mean shit, they scream about China doing that now when taking Tibet was general very non violent.
So yeah, anyone who says this shit is full of shit. A very small portion of Natives had African slaves. Pre settlers, some tribes had slaves but it was not like "modern" slavery. And yes, Natives did also go to war, kill each other, even do some fucked up shit between tribes. None of that makes the colonizer genocide of Natives ok.
I find people only say this because they know what happened was fucking bad, but have super fragile egos and have to like, find something to deflect blame because they are physically incapable of feeling even second hand shame.
It is important to note at this point that slavery in Aztec society was a practice clearly distinct from our western conceptions. An Aztec slave, or tlacotli, although clearly at the bottom of the social scale, possessed some personal rights. Slaves could marry freely, to another slave or a free person, and their children were born free. Although unpaid for their work, slaves were fed, clothed and housed as any citizen, living, according to some accounts, ‘almost free’ on their masters’ estates.¹⁴
Slavery could be a punishment, but many were ‘voluntary slaves’, lazy, tired, poor or in debt, who sold themselves for a fixed sum, which they had the right to spend before undertaking their servitude. A family, or group of families, might even sell a member into slavery and take turns at sharing the burden for a number of years. Slavery was not perpetual — emperors frequently performed mass manumissions at times of celebration, and masters often freed their slaves in their wills.
A slave who was to be sold also had a brief chance to escape. If he fled the market successfully, only the slave’s master and his sons having a right to stop him, then he would be set free if he could reach the tlatoani’s palace. Only an idle and delinquent slave could be sold, and not until he or she had been declared delinquent and traded three times did a slave become eligible to be sold as a human sacrifice. Slaves were very much a part of Aztec society, with both rights and responsibilities, though they were exempt from the military and labour services, which would have entitled them to the privileges of citizens.¹⁵ The sacrificial death of slaves was not the detached slaughter of strangers but the killing of familiar members of the community.
(Source.)
Also, the idea that the Aztecs sacrificed 150,000 people in a week (seven days) is bunk.
Sacrifice did not happen like it did in Apocalypto or whatever.
There certainly wasn't a goddamn line for it. Nobody was literally lining up to be sacrificed.
You are correct, but to nitpick a little:
Apocalypto takes place in Maya territory, not in the Valley of Mexico. Though the depiction of sacrifice here is still inaccurate as the Maya didn't perform nearly as many sacrifices as the Aztecs did - I think they only ever did one per ritual or something like that.
IIRC the creators' rationalization was that people were scared and angry and the ruling elite were trying to calm them by just lopping off as many heads as possible out of desperation because of how bad things were, which from a narrative standpoint does kinda work but also would've made more sense in the context of Aztec society than Maya society and still feels more like it was more for dramatic effect rather than trying to be true to history. Not an impossible development but a very unlikely one.
No i get that
but it was literally made by a huge Christian evangelical and anti-Semite
Also, common, copious amounts of body-piercings? On virtually everyone? That many?
And the shining light on the Spanish ships?
idk dawg...
It's been a while since I've seen it but I don't remember the piercings being outrageous.
As for the final scenes with the Spanish galleon I have to disagree with the common critique. Neither scene felt hopeful or uplifting when I saw them. I felt the opposite, actually. It felt like the quiet death blow of a civilization - not the salvation of Christ coming to save souls.
But again it's been a while since I saw it.
Maybe I just don't like that guy lol
Fair. He's a nutter for sure.
absolutely
great actor for his time
but that's about it
Native Americans did not practice scalping before colonists brought that practice with them. It actually dates back as far as ancient Greece.
also, it depended on the nation or band or culture
there were those that didn't and those that did
Additionally, it's telling when whites went to "rescue" those indigenous took, they almost never went back voluntarily. And maybe of those who did did so for their children's or parents' sake and hated it.
It wasn't chattel slavery.
It certainly wasn't mass chattel slavery at a genocidal scale.
That is the big difference.
Also, Americans owned Indigenous/Native slaves, especially in California, even up to the Civil War.