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So I recently installed Cachyos and I am now met with this problem.

There are kind of 2 main contenders here and I'm split between them. What do you use?

There is pacman + aur and then there is flatpak. Pacman has deep system integration and is much more lightweight but it has deep system integration and requires sudo to install. flatpak has sandboxing and easy permission management but it's bloated and possibly less performant?

Of course if the package isn't available on flathub then I will have to use the aur but when both are available it's hard to decide.

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[–] milk@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 3 days ago

I use native packages wherever possible, then flatpak's after that, and then aur pretty much only for things that don't run well in flatpaks. I really don't want to have to look through 50 different pkgbuilds every time there's an update and the downsides to flatpaks are, I believe, largely overstated

[–] Cyber@feddit.uk 5 points 4 days ago

when both are available it's hard to decide.

It's easy to decide: AUR (only)

Personally, I use pacman for as much as I can, then dip into yay for anything else.

[–] DefinitelyNotBirds@lemmy.ml 28 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Pacman plus the AUR is the move on Arch based distros. The AUR gives you access to basically everything, and paru or yay handles the build chain without pain. Flatpak has its place for apps that ship messy runtime dependencies, but for most things it adds an unnecessary isolation layer. Have you tried paru as your AUR helper yet?

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

I haven't actually installed an aur helper yet but when I end up needing one, I think I will go with paru.

[–] thingsiplay@lemmy.ml 16 points 6 days ago

I sometimes prefer Flatpak over AUR, because I do not trust everyone on the AUR to run scripts with root rights on my system. At least Flatpaks are a bit sandboxed (even if the sandbox is an illusion) and the programs don't install and run with root rights. Sometimes the Flatpak is from the original developer and the script in AUR is not. Or the AUR script is not updated well and often enough, unlike day one Flatpak updates. But Flatpaks do not integrate well in your system and applications can look out of place too. There is a lot to consider, besides what you already mentioned.

I use both, prefer the AUR in optimal cases.

[–] brax@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 days ago

I just use pacman and yay. I avoid flatpaks as best I can, I don't see the hype.

[–] communism@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

Yay

I only use flatpak for one Python program because it has a lot of runtime dependencies I don't want to bother with. I generally wouldn't use flatpak.

[–] thingsiplay@lemmy.ml 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I use yay, as it comes by default with EndeavourOS. It's basically an AUR helper that uses pacman and works quite the same.

Flatpak is a different package manager and has nothing to do with your system packages. They are not exclusive, I use both. So what you basically asking isn't which package manager people use, but rather which package format.

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[–] iglou@programming.dev 5 points 4 days ago

My reason for using arch linux is to have as little bloat as possible. So, pacman. Yay sometimes for AUR stuff, but my need for it is rare.

[–] mub@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 days ago

pacman / yay

I also like pacseek as it provides a simple tui for package search and getting info about packages.

[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (11 children)

Your question is not Arch specific, it's "should I use flatpaks?" And the answer in my opinion is probably no.

Flatpaks are a good idea to isolate certain applications and to provide a uniform way of installing packages. So there might be some apps that are not available in your native package manager, but do provide flatpaks. For those cases flatpaks are probably preferred. But Arch based distros have the AUR, so there are a lot of apps that aren't packaged for Arch that you can still get as a native package. Sure, using the AUR is risky and if you're not on actual Arch things might break sporadically because of mismatched dependencies (although I think CachyOS is full parity of packages with Arch, so that's maybe more of a Manjaro warning).

But flatpaks are clunky, bloated, require annoying permissions to be set to do basic things, and require you to update two package managers to do a full system update. They are more appealing for systems where you don't want to give users root access but still allow them to install programs, but for your own computer I have never seen the appeal.

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[–] Ooops@feddit.org 10 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Paru, so Pacman & AUR...

With exactly one exception: Steam via flatpak because that's the single package left that would need 32bit libraries from multilib-repo since Wine finally left those dependencies behind.

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's interesting I have steam installed through pacman and I haven't had any issues.

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 1 points 15 hours ago

I didn't have any actual issues with the native install either.

But with [multilib] activated there were dozens and dozens of 32bit libraries pulled alongside their regular version that I didn't actually need. And I use Wine a lot more than Steam anyway. So once Wine went fully 64bit I decided to get rid of all that legacy multilib 32bit stuff.

Steam via flatpak also works and will do until they, too, fully switch over to WoW64 implementation.

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 12 points 6 days ago

I don't like Flatpak, so that makes it an easy choice for me. Flatpak apps never quite integrate properly

I like having Flatpaks as a fallback option, but if something is available in the arch repos, aur or chaotic-aur, I'll always go there first

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 4 days ago

There is pacman + aur and then there is flatpak.

This is sort of like asking "which fruit juice do you use, an acme apple juicer or a blamco orange juicer." If I need a flatpak, I use flatpak. Sometimes things only have flatpaks and aren't on the AUR.

If it's on both, nowadays I typically prefer the non-flatpak version, but that's just sort of vibe based, I don't really have a good reason. I think I ran into a few (very minor) problems with flatpaks (that were probably easy to fix) that I didn't have with the non-flatpak version and that skewed me in that direction.

[–] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I use an unholy blend of paru, Flatpak, Docker and AppImage apps (no Snap!) with Topgrade to update it all.

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

Topgrade seems really cool, I wonder how it compares to arch-update

[–] OUwUO@programming.dev 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Upvoted for Topgrade. It's honestly so good on any system that employs more than one 'updatable microcosm',

[–] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

It's like magic too, because any new weird kind of package manager I add, it's just picks it up and starts updating it. It can even update Windows apparently.

[–] woodsb02@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

For command line apps, I use paru for AUR. For desktop apps, if they’re available as a flatpak, I prefer that for the increased security provided by the sandbox. Otherwise I use Arch packages or AUR. I even uninstall GNOME apps (calendar, weather) from pacman, and install their flatpaks.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (8 children)

Yay.

And btw, that question is covered already.

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[–] juipeltje@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

You can choose between things like flatpak or aur packages, but you're gonna have to use pacman either way, since your core packages are still managed by pacman even if you decide to install most things through flatpak. Just wanted to point that out in case you were thinking of not using it at all anymore, cause it's definitely not good to have your system get extremely out of date overtime. Having said that, it's a matter of preference. The aur has more packages available, but flatpak has verified packages available, so assuming you stick to those, it could be safer. It also offers things like sandboxing. When i was on arch i only used the aur. I usually go with whatever has the most packages available or whatever is most convenient.

[–] Obin@feddit.org 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I have both yay and paru on the two Arch systems I manage, because pacman tends to break those occasionally through dependencies and that way I don't have to do the whole makepkg bit again and instead can update the one with the other. I still find it asinine that these aren't in the repos or the functionality isn't integrated in to pacman, but since Arch's entire philosophy is based on simplicity, I guess the chosen solution to secure user packages is security by obscurity.

(I only still use Arch on those systems because I haven't gotten around to migrate them to Gentoo yet, after implementing a binpkg repo and custom profiles many years ago so compiling on the weaker machines is essentially unnecessary, btw.)

[–] AstroLightz@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

pacman /w chaotic-aur.

I don't need the AUR directly, a GUI, or other managers. Just what came with my system + chaotic works just fine.

edit: typo

[–] Aceofspades@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 days ago

Personally, I use pacman when possible and flatpak when it's not. I try to avoid the aur as I have had too many problems with missing dependencies or version conflicts. Plus, I don't generally need things that are not in the repositories so it rarely comes up.

"But flatpaks are not lean!" While this is true, I find flatpaks don't break my system. Flatpaks do use more resources, from storage to RAM, but I have plenty of both so it's not really a concern.

[–] TruePe4rl@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 days ago

pacman + yay + appman (in cases where appimage is more convenient)

If you need something from AUR, Chaotic AUR builds some of them.

Technically I also use managers for certain languages and environments, so sometimes cargo, pip, luarocks, ... whatever.

I did try to use flatpak in the past, but I just found it annoying. If you do not explicitly need it's capabilities for a certain app it is mostly makes accessing app's config and data a major annoyance imo.

[–] SolarPunker@slrpnk.net 5 points 6 days ago

Always use native pkgs if possibile (so use pacman/paru)

[–] Maiq@piefed.social 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Look into the Chaotic AUR. It offers pre compiled AUR programs. Almost every app I really need has been there. If it's not in there and I really need it and will get used often I'll get it from the AUR.

I dont really like flatpaks much. I'll use it if it's easy and I dont plan on using the app much. Apps like Bottles. They are nice to have but rarely do I use it.

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why would you download precompiled AUR binaries? it just seams more stable and secure to compile yourself, with this your trusting a third party when you didn't have to.

[–] Maiq@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

For me it's convenience, i try to not have a bunch of aur packages. Some big packages can take a good while to compile.

Chaotic is also trying to combat threats by reviewing packages from maintainers that are not in their trust database. While not absolutely perfect at least they are trying to do something.

The aur is a use at your own rick batch of packages. Last year there were some malicious packages running wild. AUR expects the user to do their own due diligence and do you really have time to read every bit of code you are about to install for every update in all the possible languages they could be written in? This is why I try to limit my dependence on the aur if possible chaotic or otherwise.

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