this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
0 points (NaN% liked)

/0

2177 readers
2 users here now

Meta community. Discuss about this lemmy instance or lemmy in general.

Service Uptime view

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
0
New Soft Rule: Tagging posts as [GenAI] when they contain Generative AI (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 11 months ago by db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/div0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
137 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Hey m@tes, as y'all know, this instance has been anti-corporate GenAI positive since it's creation and as such we've typically allowed such content to be posted freely. However in the last few weeks we've had a bunch of drama from GenAI haters who insist on coming into our comms and starting slap-fights. This caused us to vote on a new rule to have the mandate to clear out this constant friction. This worked to an extent, but I think we can help foster a better community with the larger threadiverse.

One issue a lot of anti-GenAI people keep bringing is that while they can block dedicated comms like !stable_diffusion_art@lemmy.dbzer0.com, they don't have an easy option to avoid GenAI content in random other /0 comms as there's no way to filter it out. This kind of content has been seen to cause a lot of strife, because people complain about its existence, while /0 admins and mods based on the above rule, tend to sanction those complaining. This then causes drama loops with /c/YPTB and /c/FuckAI etc.

There is a good point to be made here that while we don't mind GenAI content in /0, there isn't a reason to not help others avoid it. So we want to institute the following soft rule by now:

Simply tag your posts which consist of primarily GenAI content with the [GenAI] tag in their title. Not only will frontends like Tesseract will natively parse this as a tag and display it accordingly, but people who dislike such content, can simply filter it out of their feeds. Eventually lemmy will add tags which will make this tagging more seamless, but for now a manual tag in the title will suffice.

This rule only applies to posts in non-explicit GenAI comms. The assumption is that people can simply block those comms completely anyway.

As I said, this is a soft rule for now. Soft in the sense that you're not going to be sanctioned for forgetting it, but we hope people will remind you to do so. This is a good-faith attempt by us to co-exist and help others avoid what they don't want to stumble onto, much like [NSFW] tags. So I hope you'll add do a good faith attempt to help us in this.

Cheers

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Imagine getting angry at something this trivial.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think it's more "imagine getting mad at people using it at all" because the social effects aren't trivial at all.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] unbanshee@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I mean...

I can imagine how artists struggling to make ends meet might be angry that work they'd spent years learning and honing their skills to produce was and is being crawled by tools made by a bunch of silver-spoon-chomping techbros who are marketing their products to businesses who employ artists as a way to employ less artists, and pay peanuts to those they do hire to wrangle prompts and fix AI mistakes instead of actually getting to make art.

And I can imagine how frustrating it is to see people minimize that struggle when it often benefits oligarchs and C-suite ghouls.

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This isn't exactly a capitalist tech-bro instance. So while I agree with there being a problem here, the problem is less genai and more about capitalism IMHO.

Which is why it can seem a bit silly to me to go after this instance of all things when it comes to genai.

That said, as always, I think db0's soft rule is a really great good faith effort to be accommodating to others, while staying true to the core of what the instance is about.

So I hope you'll see that part of things and tone it down in kind.

[–] unbanshee@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, what exactly do I need to tone down?

Pretty sure this is the first time I've ever commented on the issue here or elsewhere on Lemmy.

I see anti-AI sentiment all over the fediverse, but nothing in the original post that would indicate that these users are exclusively targeting db0 communities, just that the admins here have chosen to address it; and I agree it's a good way to handle the situation.

I think there are good and valuable use cases for AI, including generative AI.

But I also think a lot of the costs are hidden because the tools are free and easy to access, and because those coats often pretty abstract and wide-ranging so as to be difficult to observe, quantify, and attribute to an emerging technology. So I think there are a lot of really valid reasons to question casual use of those tools because they do not exist outside of capitalism.

The point of my earlier post wasn't meant to be that all use of AI is bad or that somebody using it to make a meme or art of their big-titty anime waifu is directly putting artists out of work, but I also don't think that those things are entirely separable, either.

And since I was replying to a user whose comment made a blanket claim implying that casual use of generative AI is trivial, well... no, I don't think it is.

I've done all sorts of art in my life. Sometimes as a job. And it's personally pretty disheartening to see comments like "it just looks like AI, human-made art doesn't look like that" because yes, it sometimes does, even if the poster has never seen human-made art like that.

But I've also spent the last few years watching dozens of friends and former coworkers lose their careers and their livelihoods en masse for no reason other than naked greed.

I think that making art more accessible through AI can be a really cool and pretty liberating thing for a lot of people, but as it's being employed by the big corporate players, it does have big serious negative externalities for working artists and for cultural products writ large, and I think that's worth bringing up.

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Sorry, what exactly do I need to tone down?

More of a general commentary for the anti-AI folks.

but nothing in the original post that would indicate that these users are exclusively targeting db0 communities

There have been pretty frequent cases of it lately, as db0 is pro ai.

So I think there are a lot of really valid reasons to question casual use of those tools because they do not exist outside of capitalism.

They do, there are many openly created and developed options which can be entirely locally run.

This is an anarchist instance.

This is not the same thing as anarcho-capitalist, which I personally think is nonsensical to include 'anarch' at all in because its just extremist capitalism with corporations rather than states. Its not remotely anarchist, but that's a digression.

This instance is specifically anti-capitalism. And while I understand you are saying you are not running around being anti-AI, the latter 75% of the comment I'm replying to speaks to a capitalism problem, not a genai problem.

There are many people complaining about genai that are just complaining about capitalism. They might be using genai as the context, but the complaint is about capitalism. Just like the majority of your comment.

So the people who are going on db0 communities, complaining about genai (with capitalism as the reason why), well they really aren't paying attention to what the instance is.

[–] Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

i understand what youre saying, no ethical consumption etc etc, but gen ai to me is akin to buying from Amazon, or eating meat and dairy products. like yeah, one person doing it isnt the issue, and its normalised and easy, and todays hypercapitalism is the root issue of why these things are bad so its not really your fault.

if you cant/ wont take these things into account with your stated moral attitudes (anti capital/ corporate, pro environmental, etc) then why say you are an anarchist?

idk if this makes sense, and im not trying to take away your lefty badge or whatever, but shouldnt we try to not use the tools of the ownership class? shouldnt we try to uplift our fellow workers instead of freely using tools we know steal their labour?

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

You seem to believe that all of the genai platforms are Gemini, copilot, etc.

This is decidedly untrue.

There are many models built entirely on public domain works, not made by or for the benefit of any corporation or business entity.

I have personally built models (not llm, thats not my use case) for identifying certain movement patterns in animals. I have made others to identify problems in audio.

The sampled data is all mine. There is no company backing it, no corporate overlord.

Capitalism is not involved.

In what way is it a "tool of the ownership class" for me to use my own models for my own use?

In the same vein, in what way are generative ai models, developed on readily available, public domain materials, provided equally to all possible both as the model (as well as available processing for free as you'll find here) a "tool of the ownership class"?

I'm not trying to be dismissive here, but what it sounds like to me is that you have limited knowledge of these solutions, and are suggesting all of them are owned by MS/Google/Meta/OpenAI/etc, and that isn't remotely accurate.

Thats like saying I shouldn't use a wrench I made in my metal shop at home, because Snap-On makes wrenches, so wrenches are a tool of the ownership class.

[–] Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

wrench analogy is very good, ai can be used as a tool.

i would like to see the numbers of people using 'off the rack' vs home grown on this site. maybe that would help me change my mind further :)

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'd have no way of gathering those numbers, but considering what this instance is all about, I'd feel comfortable saying the numbers would lean heavily toward locally run.

There is even an ai horde here run entirely with volunteered compute.

Here's a two year old post about it.

Short version, from admin down to lowly users like myself, the people on dbzer0 are all about locally run (and sometimes publicly shared) approaches to genai.

Edited to add: And yes, thats exactly what I use my own genai stuff for primarily, tools to make my life easier. I have a model I've trained on my own writing (mostly white papers, blog posts, and emails) to generate responses to emails - including for my work.

Its still a WIP unfortunately, but its getting better as I tweak.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

But I’ve also spent the last few years watching dozens of friends and former coworkers lose their careers and their livelihoods en masse for no reason other than naked greed.

But that's not going to change. At all. No amount of boycotting or yelling about it on Lemmy is going to change it. Guess what, before artists, factory workers got taken over by new tech. Textile workers got taken over by new tech. Candle lighters got taken over by new tech. Horse and buggy makers got taken over by new tech.

Artists aren't any more special than any other industry. I was a professional artist for 35 years. Worked in marketing depts almost my entire career.

Adapt or die. But being upset about it doesn't change the tide. I jumped right in and I love AI art. Even tho it took over my industry. :)

What do people on Lemmy think their outrage is gonna do? It's already here. It's already in the vid games you all play. It's already in the DnD manuals you all read.

The Luddites here amaze me. If you feel so "sad" for those people, well then be sure to buy some of their original artwork. Nothing is making them stop. They just will have to do something else for a living. MOST people don't love what they do for a living. Artists are some precious group that needs to be protected. They can still do their craft.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Fair, but this happens in EVERY profession. Happened with people who sewed clothes, weavers, photographers (once a camera was on every single phone), now coders, etc. Also very few artists made money anyway. People who like to do art for personal and fun reason, still can.

Source: I used to be a professional artist/graphic artist for a living. I was able to do it for 35 years before I retired last year. It was always a grind, and very few could make it. Even though I was good enough for it to be my only paycheck for most of my career, I still love AI artwork. :)

World changes. People crying about it and "boycotting" lemmy communities because they don't like it won't change anything at all. Not even a little bit.

AI isn't going anywhere, regardless of how mad people on Lemmy are about it. Not only that, but a lot of nerdy stuff they do now like vid games, DnD, etc, already incorporate AI and will continue to do so. I still have contacts in the industry, I know what the marketing departments are doing. Lemmy won't even know what is AI and what isn't.

There are still people here who say "Oh just look at the hands!"...friends, there is lots of ai that has figured that out. Marketing teams aren't using ai that looks ai. You are already being duped. lmao

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

I think of that every single time someone goes off on me on Lemmy. Which is every day! Lemmy def seems to attract people with certain kind of personality trait that means they get obsessed and upset over the tinest things and can't understand context.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Good, AI art fucking sucks.

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So do your opinions.

[–] three@lemmy.zip 0 points 11 months ago

Dirty slopper.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Well it looks like a majority here agree with my fuckin sucky opinion so that's cool at least

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This ain't a popularity contest, you neckbeard redditor.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Lol you're the one instigating, you could have said nothing

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I know, those are my favorite use cases 😏

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is AI porn better for the women or does it take away the jobs of context creators?

[–] swelter_spark@reddthat.com 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

It's better for kids, for sure.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's pretty funny sometimes though

[–] neomachino@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I accidentally clicked on an AI video of Hank Hill rapping with all the characters from King of the hill and it was fucking hilarious and the song actually kind of slapped in a "bad music good" kind of way.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (11 children)

I like it. That's the thing about art. Some people like it. Some people don't. You don't get to define what is or isn't art for me. I get to define it for me. That's what's so awesome about it.

Also, get used to it. AI isn't ever ever going away. This is just the beginning. So pace your hate.

load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] Taser@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

FWIW, I approve/agree with this rule.

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I think this is a good addition. We shouldn't alienate other like-minded people because of slight disagreements in my mind "minor shit" like this, and this seems like the least that can be done.

Also, I believe this post should be tagged with [GenAi] because of the attached image? 😅

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well, the tag is very much in the title yes ;)

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Re-reading it yeah it's in the middle, I'm just conditioned to think the format [TAG]:Title heh

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

Ye that's how most posts should look, but in my case I didn't want to add it twice

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think it would be good if users could somehow add the tag to a post if the owner forgets to. Tildes.net has this. Although I get that it would need ti be added inti Lemmy.

[–] sgnl@midwest.social 0 points 11 months ago

You can edit titles in Lemmy. So they can add it afterwards.

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's a good idea in spirit but the tags will mostly be used to brigade and not to filter in my opinion. Most apps dont even have the feature if I'm not mistaken.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If they brigade, we'll handle it

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

I already raised that concern as well, but I do think it's worth a try. Would be great to dupe the functionality of the NSFW tag for this purpose.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

Yep, I agree with you.

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

Kudos.

That's it, that's the comment

[–] MysticMushroom1776@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I think this is a nice gesture but I also think it's way too charitable for the Anti-GenAI people currently complaining. Their issue isn't that they want to avoid it, they want to stamp it out, they want it gone. They're not going to hide posts or keywords, they're going to brigade them. They already brigade and harass explicitly GenAI communities and don't block them. They've harassed me multiple times, told me to die in DMs and even impersonated me for running such communities. Tagging isn't going to help, they're just going to use it to hunt down people who post it and brigade the posts or target the users, because they aren't angry that they are seeing it, they're angry that it exists and they wish to stamp it out, no matter the cost.

In short this is a good solution with good intentions but it assumes a level of good faith that just isn't there. I'd agree with this if the problem was really people just not wanting to see it, but the problem is much deeper. I'm sure that once people start doing it, the goal posts will be moved and they'll just stop using "untagged" as a reason for complaining.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Their issue isn’t that they want to avoid it, they want to stamp it out, they want it gone

Exactly this. These sorts of people don't want to co-exist. They want to bully us out of existence.

and even impersonated me for running such communities.

Sorry you've had to go through that. I have been through that too (and still have it happen). So I know how frustrating it is. People on Lemmy can be super weird.

I'm all for OP's solution, but like you, I don't it will solve much because of just how much people like to stir up drama. They won't use those tags to block, they'll use those tags to find and harrass.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

not to downplay these issues, the impersonation is fucked and weird. but i guess trolls gonna troll and whack-a-mole is the only solution...

idk what else would you have in mind?

[–] MysticMushroom1776@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I think that the AI friendly nature of our instance needs to be clearly written in our instance sidebar (@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com and @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com can help with that) which would help out since the instance sidebar is visible in all dbzer0 communities which are remote. It should probably also be included in the application prompt as a disclaimer, since I'm seeing a lot of dbzer0 people who signed up and are complaining about AI (guys what the fuck are you doing here on an AI instance if you hate AI).

Also moderation, moderation is the only real way to deal with the Anti-AI brigading and trolling. Preventative moderation can also be used as well if things get bad enough and/or don't improve.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

I was wondering if you guys would catch the latest shitstorm on this. Definitely a necessary precaution. Its a good idea, and I hope it will be enough.

Its getting to the point where people are blanket terming us as unhinged and blocking the whole instance because debates are getting heated. :(

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] whalebiologist@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago

I like gen ai and I think this rule is a nice gesture towards the other side. It's a good practice to cite your sources when you're online anyhow.

[–] Widdershins@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

What about that mod banning people from ai communities before they could block the community?

[–] hendu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If they don't want to see the AI communities anyway, is that really a problem?

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Then people who hate ai should be grateful, because they don't want anything to do with that community anyway. :)

load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] andybytes@programming.dev 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Ai is webscraping among many other things and it is theft. It is for the lazy stupid People. It looks like shit. AI is rape. AI is anti-human. And the people that like AI love to suck billionaire cock. You could be a dumbass marketer and be proud of what you create, but you'll never be an artist. AI is not art.

[–] pendant@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

imo you're giving in to a loud minority that aren't looking for reasonable solutions. They hate ai because of propaganda, and they want it gone. They'll keep pushing for more censorship every time because the genie won't go back in the bottle, but damned if they won't try anyways

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 0 points 11 months ago

That's good I agree with this

load more comments
view more: next ›