Communism is when no food : memes

[–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 64 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Be aware, very old people die from this as a secondary cause from a primary of Alzheimer's and other dementias. They just stop eating. It's a misleading statistic to use to identify poverty based malnutrition. It's a very common diagnosis in terminal patients. And the way US billing works, getting the most diagnosis codes recorded is important for reimbursement. It's likely the cause for this disparity.

Edit: yeah 2015 is when ICD-10 adoption and cms billing changes went into play. And then the rate quadrupled. This is an artifact of the US's dumb private/public insurance model for end of life as more people gamed the system for reimbursement. The spread of billing practices over time.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Why is France also an outlier?

[–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago

Dunno. I'm a US nurse. I don't know how France does their death certificates.

[–] hanabatake@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Gave a detailed answer: https://lemmy.ml/post/46593201/25415914

[–] grue@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ah, thanks. I figured that, like the US, it was some kind of other policy that had a side effect of artificially skewing the numbers.

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[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 39 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

wtf is going on in france

[–] GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml 27 points 3 weeks ago

"Let them eat cake" moment.

Jokes apart, the children of the rich are obese, the children of the poor are too thin. Both tendencies contribute to malnutrition.

https://globalnutritionreport.org/resources/nutrition-profiles/europe/western-europe/france/

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[–] mecen@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

WTF is going on in france

[–] ignotum@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

They got rid of their monarchs, so there's noone left to tell them to eat cake

[–] bratorange@feddit.org 24 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Is France really so far above the European average? Or am I reading this wrong?

[–] hanabatake@lemmy.ml 46 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I am french. I already saw these figures and tried to understand why it was like that. The figures might be technically correct but it doesn't make sense to compare them with other countries. 5000 people dying each year of hunger, it would be revolting.

We do not let people die of starvation in France, unless we think it is the best thing to do. We have this concept of "sédation profonde et continue". Assisted suicide is prohibited in France. So people that suffer from uncurable decease can stop receiving food and hydratation until they die. They continue to receive painkiller or are even put in coma because letting them die that way is legal and considered the most human thing to do. A french christian newspaper wrote an article about it End of life: Are we really letting patients to die of hunger and thirst in France?. They are really opposed to assisted suicide and even them are OK with this process. So technically, we are letting people die of hunger.

About people suffering from hunger, we have food bank to help them, meal costs 1€ at university... It is far from perfect but we are not letting people die like the figures would let imagine.

About overseas regions, it is not that poor. The poorest overseas region, Mayotte, has been mostly destroyed by a cyclone two years ago. Both public services and NGOs thanks to a lot of donation reacted quickly to avoid famine. The situation is still bad but people are not starving.

Hope I answer the question

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[–] expatriado@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

things don't doing well in the french overseas regions?

[–] mech@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Likely the same reason for the US

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

French overseas regions are officially part of France, while US except Hawaii are not, so they likely are not counted in this statistics for US. Also the France has 4-4,5% of total population in overseas territories while US have around 1% so their impact in case of France would be also over 4 times greater.

So it's most certainly just the good US of A.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands aren't counted?

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I looked at the source and no, they aren't, just the proper states.

[–] EntheoNaut@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Not much is proper in the states these days.

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[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 3 weeks ago

That's wild!

[–] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

i doubt that, the us is in worst conditions than many third world countries

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

Half that spike is the US Navy.

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 weeks ago

Vietnam undefeated

[–] nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

You’re mixing two population averages, so you need a weighted calculation.

Let’s approximate first: France has about 67 million people out of roughly 447 million in the European Union, so ≈15% French and 85% non-French.

We set up:

Overall EU rate = weighted average 1.7=0.15⋅8+0.85⋅x

Solve:

1.7=1.2+0.85x 0.5=0.85x x≈0.59

So, among non-French Europeans, the rate is roughly 0.6 per 100,000.

That’s substantially lower than both the French rate (8) and the EU average (1.7), which makes sense given how high the French figure is relative to the rest. Also this is pretty much what I read for Vietnam in this chart.

thanks France, for ruining our numbers!

Edit: somewhere in this thread someone from France gives a perfectly good reason and connects the high starvation rate to assisted suicide. Which shines it's light on another problem but very well explains and justifies the "starvation rate" - making this graph/comparison even more absurd.

[–] atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

it says Europe though, not the European Union

if you click the question mark near the Europe statistic, it says it also includes countries like Russia and the UK which mess with the statistic a lot

[–] nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 weeks ago

good point, makes the comparison even worse %-)

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[–] merdaverse@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I see that some people try to attribute this to older population and/or Alzheimer, but even by those metrics the countries above are pretty close and wouldn't justify such a big gap:

As for the reliability of data, it's from a peer reviewed study by an American university. If they had a way to make the China data look worse, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate.

[–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

You wouldn't expect more (or less) primary causes if more secondary causes were reported in multifactorial deaths. I'd imagine the fact that in the US CMS adopted ICD-10 in 2015 and the rapid rise after would make that obvious enough. Unless you believe there's some pre-COVID etiology for malnutrition that explains the jump I'm not seeing.

[+] nyankas@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (7 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 27 points 3 weeks ago

Data from authoritarian countries is less reliable

Part of the ideology of white-supremacy, is that proximity to whiteness means trustworthiness and authenticity, and distance from it means untrustworthiness.

So white supremacists think only the western countries (and their allies like South Korea, Japan, and other US military base countries) data and educational institutions can be trusted, while the numbers coming from any country opposed to them must inherently be a lie.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml 25 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"Data from authoritarian countries is less reliable"

Uh-oh.

Please tell me, which countries/peninsulae on the graph are authoritarian, and which are not.

[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Authoritarian (Bad Guys) ((Not white))

[–] GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Also being white is a weird definition. The Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese have a very white color of skin. Slavic people too have a white skin. But in both cases, they are not considered white.

[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Even Russians got kicked out of being white

[–] GiorgioPerlasca@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 weeks ago

Russia has always been part European and part Asian. The city of Kazan' is a proof of that.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 weeks ago

Regarding point 1, this is relatively true.

Regarding point 2, all of these states are "authoritarian," the difference being which class has authority, and which classes has authority imposed upon them. Cuba, the PRC, and Vietnam are all socialist countries with the working class in charge of the state, while France, Europe, and the US are all imperialist countries/regions where capitalists control the state and impose their authoritarian rule upon the working classes.

Regarding point 3, this could be a possible explanation but requires actual backing.

Regarding point 4, it's important to compare not just systems dogmatically, but against peers, and what came before. Germany, the UK, Austria, etc. are all imperialist countries, and thus have greater access to resources. It matters both how much resources you have, and what you do with them. Socialist countries have more pro-social policy that stretches resources farther.

In total, it certainly is propaganda in that it's trying to convey a specific point for a specific aim, just like your comment can be considered propaganda. You offer some decent ideas of how to improve the data, but you also insert your own biases without backing them up, and run into metaphysical errors regarding how these are compared (such as ignoring levels of development and imperialism).

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[–] Dadifer@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, but those are poor people, so 🤷‍♂️

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Why is France so high?

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Probably because France counts their colonies as part of France. Mayotte specially has to be contributing to this

[–] hanabatake@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 weeks ago

Gave a detailed answer: https://lemmy.ml/post/46593201/25415914

[–] bigmamoth@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Isn't malnutrition also englobe stuff as too much food and bad food ? Pretty sure a big portion of thoses are fat Americans that kill themself with food

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

Putting the blame on individuals is wrong. Obesity is a result of endless advertising and poor regulation due to capitalism.

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