this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2026
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No this is because I grew up in Turkey as a christian and foreigner lol. I know about the ülkücüler because I had to, not that we were in particular danger mind you, but we occasionally had the windows of our church smashed. I can go more in depth some other time, maybe. It's kinda hard to explain to westerners tbh because it's a rather particular mindset tbh and this whole "turkic nations" thing is part of the racist background hum that permeates turkish society. Like how would you explain how some clearly racist european communities that seemingly just celebrate "european culture" are actually racist to, say, a chinese person. Take the sub name for instance, the name of some bygone nation that beget a bunch of others. The only relation these nations have nowadays have to Turkey (which is clearly important to that sub) is that their governments kind of descended from the same one. But they will claim some blood kinship, and think it's very important because this is a deeply racist movement.
I think people forget that the ottoman empire fell only about 100 years ago, that it even controlled a huge part of europe in the 19th century. A lot of the race-"science" from europe made it's way to Turkey and this "turkic brethren" shit is an outgrowth of that. Turkey had it's own genocides in the 20th century that it still denies, these brainworms were never dealt with but are swept under the rug and allowed or sometimes even encouraged to fester. You have schoolchildren every day before school, stand at attention in military formations by class, sing the national anthem and when i went to school there, the entire school around me swore (this oath)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Oath_%28Turkey%29]. The shit I heard some Kemalists (these are the liberals) during the big arab spring refugee migrations about the (arab) refugees would have made been right at home at the AfD.
Not that I want to portray Turkey as a cartoonishly racist country, there is a lot of nuances, especially since it's not a white country and a muslim country that is getting exploited by europe and the US, that come into play. The people are generally speaking very friendly and the country is beautiful. It's not more racist than any other european nation, but it's not that far behind them either. It was an imperial country that dominated and subjugated many nations and deserves to be named in the same breath as France, Britain, Germany etc. and the brainworms that come from that are similar.
Also the "ethnic group" in question is not even something all those in that group would agree on. A lot of people in Azerbaijan at least (I haven't talked to people from other "turkic" nations) are put off by it, because Turkey and some turkish people see themself as the "big bro" that benevolently protect them and knows better. Turkey's turkish is seen as the default and the other nations cultures and languages as cute, quaint or exotic aberrations.
There is also no clear idea what being "turkic" really means, some consider native americans turkic (yes, all the native americans) some consider finns/magyars turkic (this is not a /pol/ shitpost, these people really exist). They (claim to) want a turkic ethnonation across asia, anatolia, to xinjiang and northern sea to afghanistan mostly (depending on who they consider turkic tbh). This is just "aryan peoples" but applied to some other supposed race of people.
You answered a lot, and I'm thankful for that. But you didn't answer the major one. You're accusing this entire community of being a fascist op.
Because everything you said is, more or less, disagreement. That's perfectly fine and acceptable, that's the world. But you're making a very large claim and have yet to provide any evidence that the community is what you're claiming.
My larger point is that the whole concept of a "turkic ethnic group" that spans like a third of asia is born out of racist brainworms wiggling about in turkish society. This is like a community celebrating all the "germanic nations" as if sweden, denmark, germany, austria, northern italy, west poland etc. are all germans wearing different hats. The whole idea that those nations are tied "more closely" together through a shared "lingual root" or more closely related to eachother or whatever should be obviously racist to anyone who has ever heard about the shit the nazis were spewing about the "greater german reich". And I'm not drawing this parallel out of nowhere.
I've decided not to go further with digging into the history of it all. The comm was just part of cm002 special op to starve lemmy.ml of interactions and since it moved to one of the "good" instances it will likely not be very active.
I stand by that this is a racist movement as someone who grew up in turkey, went to turkish school, had the history of Turkey from Mongolia, through the seljuks to the ottoman empire as part of their curriculum and is intimately familiar with the whole ideas and thoughts that tie into this "turkic identity" idea. But unpacking it all would be a big effortpost just in order to get the copy of an already dead comm deleted and I have enough stress and stuff to research as it is.
do you think your standard of evidence may be too high given the well studied subterfuge and plausible deniability fascists engage in? if enough of the user base is even sympathetic to these fascist currents then it's cause for alarm
No. Anecdotal claims are not evidence. I also asked for any evidence of this community doing this specifically and literally none was ever provided. This is not due to my standard of evidence.
civility weaponization is a common tactic of theirs. "anecdotal" claims are good enough actually
Yet again, I am begging someone to link to a single thing instead of just claiming stuff.
No, they're not, actually. Not when you're making an entire claim about an ethnic group and the community about them. It is, in fact, wildly xenophobic.
You are not the person making this claim and are not aiding in their claims. I have no interest in continuing this conversation with you. Goodbye.
actually yes they are. they are inremoved cases and they are in information wars like the one you're fighting against the left right now. i'm not going to repeat ourselves
No. They're not. This is a website where modlogs show removed comments and posts and where links/screenshots are capable. Merely saying "I saw this" is not evidence.
By asking for links or screenshots that are entirely capable of being attained?
Nothing said here has made sense or had any bearing on reality to begin with so go for it. I won't be engaging in anything you have to say in future anyway. Blocked.
Thanks for representing all of the left, matey, it must be a heavy burden for a smug bad-jacketing asshole like yourself.
you're welcome
I should have just went to the reddit sub tbh. I don't know if it gets clearer than this. This is just skimming the frontpage for a minute
Obsessing over DNA, haplogroups and what ancient civilizations some DNA can(?) be trace backed to
Kurtpasa1923 (Kurt=wolf, the symbol of the nationalist movement, pasa=the ottoman title and 1923 is the founding of the turkish republic all smashed together) asks about a "Turan Union" https://www.reddit.com/r/Tiele/comments/1wkso90/do_you_think_a_turan_union_could_be_established/
I guess they sanitize it for the lemmy audience? Idk, but that plus the related communities should paint a very clear picture imo
Related communities include
I asked for evidence of this community being guilty of what you're claiming. I did it the first time, you answered everything other than that. I reiterated with
You responded with
So you're making a severe accusation against a community and refusing to provide any supporting materials of the behavior from the community you're accusing of this behavior. Then an hour later...
This is not Reddit. I asked for evidence of your claim that the community you claimed of being a fascist op was in fact a fascist op. You outright said you have personally decided not to dig into the history of it all. An hour later you dug into the history of it all from a different website and posted it as a gotcha.
You haven't posted a single thing from lemmy that supports your claim. You have, however, posted links from another and unrelated website in claiming that that somehow bolsters your claim of fascism on this community. The thing that is concerning to me is that you seem to have zero problem going to this other website and looking for evidence of your claims but you refuse to do so here on Lemmy.
You literally just did that same effort in going to reddit, finding multiple posts, taking screenshots and making a comment. All to bolster your claim that the lemmy community is guilty of these things. Yet... its too much effort to find this behavior on the community you're actually accusing of said behavior?
You keep avoiding the one question that I keep asking. You made a claim about this specific community. Do you have any evidence for this behavior? You are now grabbing 'evidence' from another website as if that stands for this community. Different website, different users, different mods, different posts. None of which is valid evidence to make a claim against another website.
So. Again.
You answered a lot, and I'm thankful for that. But you didn't answer the major one. You're accusing this entire community of being a fascist op.
Because everything you said is, more or less, disagreement. That's perfectly fine and acceptable, that's the world. But you're making a very large claim and have yet to provide any evidence that the community is what you're claiming.
this community is derived from, is named after and regularly links back to a eugenicist community and it's successor community talks about an ethnonation. Sorry it hasn't made a post that made their intention quite as clear in the two days where the only poster was copying posts over from reddit. Hence why I would need to do a deep dive into turanism and "turkic identity" to explain how this is all sus which is not what I'm gonna do for the mirror of a dead community, which is what I meant by "not digging into the history of it all". The only reason I feel compelled to reply is because of your rude tone implying I'm at fault for not having an open-and-shut case. This is a turanist community, you can believe me who grew up around this kind of thinking or not, but don't act like I have an obligation to explain every detail of turkish racism just to get a dead comm deleted.
How is the subreddit that spawned the community, that it links back to, that it's named after unrelated??? How is the community that the guy opened after leaving lemmy.ml unrelated to this?? You probably know the nazi bar story but let me repeat it here
etc. you know the rest. The dude was acting all nice posting about his ancient heritage under a turanist flag. And I notice it so I thought I'd say something. Probably won't happen again though.
What's the concern? Genuinely, why is that concerning? I'm not even refusing to do so for the lemmy community, there just arent posts that are as clear cut. But even if, what are you so concerned about??
Nooooo way is going to reddit and grabbing a few links the same effort as writing an essay about this "turkic" movement, how it ties back to the ottoman empire, how it is used to spread anticommunism and rally right-wingers internationally (e.g. Syria, Turkmenistan). And seeing your standard of proof I'd have to explain everything in excruciating detail and pull up the original sources.
Its the one user, that is most likely also active on that sub, a mod for all I know, and is just literally copying posts over. He is literally trying to recreate that sub, which I've just noticed has a göktürk sign next to it's name in case it just was not obvious enough what that community is.
No you aren't, don't do that shit with me. You don't get to talk down to me like that and then pretend like all you want is a completely reasonable effort post.
And like I said the only reason I'm even in here responding to all of this, is because you all make it look like I'm the unreasonable one for posting about an issue that isn't as clear-cut as to allow you all to make an instant decision.
See, this is shit I'm talking about. You're making a claim against the community that could be easily backed up with a link. You didn't bother. It's just "take my word".
Then, according to that, you could have easily grabbed links from the community but instead grabbed them from reddit? YOU are the one making this claim. It is on YOU to back it up. You do not get to act like the victim and act upset that someone has asked you to provide literally anything backing up your claim. My one stipulation was that it has to be from this community. That is it. For whatever reason, you're refusing and expecting everyone else to dig through and do the work to prove your claim. That isn't how this works.
Because it has different users and mods and is on a different website. The behavior of those users does not immediately equate to guilt of the users of the community on Lemmy. Moreover, you linked to several posts from reddit. If your claim is that they're automatically posted to lemmy, then why didn't you use the Lemmy posts? This is another example of bad faith.
Because Lemmy is literally designed to allow for different communities on different instances. I have no idea what that has to do with this at all.
Yet again. Got any links of this community actually doing that? You have not done so.
Because you cannot use solely the actions of another community to cast blame on this one without using evidence from this community to back your claims. I'm running out of ways to say the exact same thing.
Yes. You are. You said:
Is this not a refusal?
I'm concerned about someone who makes a claim about a group, provides zero evidence of this group doing what they claim, and then expecting everyone to take them at face value. That isn't how this works.
I did not ask for an essay. I asked for literally any evidence that this community is doing what you're claiming. You are the one inventing an essay. This is another example of bad faith. I have asked for something extremely simple, literally any links, and you are changing the standard of proof and getting angry about it.
My standard of proof is links from this community that back up what you're claiming. That's it. I've said this now several times in several comments. It's really not that difficult.
Then link to a problematic post.
The Cyberpunk-y image? Or the flag?
You're wrong. I am. I do like knowing more information and learning about this. Everything you've posted is useful information. You just haven't done the one thing of linking it to actions of this community. You're making a claim against groups as a whole but your initial post said:
All I am asking is for you to provide literally any links of that community behaving in such a way. That's it. And you're refusing to do so.
No, all I want are links to the community behaving in a way that you're claiming. That's significantly less effort than the comment you just typed.
You all.
If everyone here is reacting in the same way then the problem isn't us.