this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2026
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(CW: Racism) Turanist comm on db0 (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 4 weeks ago by mathemachristian@hexbear.net to c/div0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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For those who are not clued into the intricacies of turkish (ethno-)nationalism, turanism is kind of like the odin-flavored racism in germany. They hate arabs so much they reject Islam (which is otherwise pretty core to turkish nationalism) because it's an "arab religion". It's in a (not so coincidentally) similar vein to the odin-racists hating jews so much that they reject christianity due to it being a "semitic religion". I could get into it more if needed but if you also browse the articles about the grey wolves (why are they called that 🤔) it should be fairly clear why that comm is a fascist op that is now being spread on lemmy

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[–] Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I asked for evidence of this community being guilty of what you're claiming. I did it the first time, you answered everything other than that. I reiterated with

Because everything you said is, more or less, disagreement. That’s perfectly fine and acceptable, that’s the world. But you’re making a very large claim and have yet to provide any evidence that the community is what you’re claiming.

You responded with

I’ve decided not to go further with digging into the history of it all.

So you're making a severe accusation against a community and refusing to provide any supporting materials of the behavior from the community you're accusing of this behavior. Then an hour later...

I should have just went to the reddit sub tbh. I don’t know if it gets clearer than this.

This is not Reddit. I asked for evidence of your claim that the community you claimed of being a fascist op was in fact a fascist op. You outright said you have personally decided not to dig into the history of it all. An hour later you dug into the history of it all from a different website and posted it as a gotcha.

I guess they sanitize it for the lemmy audience?

You haven't posted a single thing from lemmy that supports your claim. You have, however, posted links from another and unrelated website in claiming that that somehow bolsters your claim of fascism on this community. The thing that is concerning to me is that you seem to have zero problem going to this other website and looking for evidence of your claims but you refuse to do so here on Lemmy.

But unpacking it all would be a big effortpost just in order to get the copy of an already dead comm deleted and I have enough stress and stuff to research as it is.

You literally just did that same effort in going to reddit, finding multiple posts, taking screenshots and making a comment. All to bolster your claim that the lemmy community is guilty of these things. Yet... its too much effort to find this behavior on the community you're actually accusing of said behavior?

You keep avoiding the one question that I keep asking. You made a claim about this specific community. Do you have any evidence for this behavior? You are now grabbing 'evidence' from another website as if that stands for this community. Different website, different users, different mods, different posts. None of which is valid evidence to make a claim against another website.

So. Again.

You answered a lot, and I'm thankful for that. But you didn't answer the major one. You're accusing this entire community of being a fascist op.

Do you have literally any evidence of this type of behavior on that community?

Because everything you said is, more or less, disagreement. That's perfectly fine and acceptable, that's the world. But you're making a very large claim and have yet to provide any evidence that the community is what you're claiming.

[–] mathemachristian@hexbear.net 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

this community is derived from, is named after and regularly links back to a eugenicist community and it's successor community talks about an ethnonation. Sorry it hasn't made a post that made their intention quite as clear in the two days where the only poster was copying posts over from reddit. Hence why I would need to do a deep dive into turanism and "turkic identity" to explain how this is all sus which is not what I'm gonna do for the mirror of a dead community, which is what I meant by "not digging into the history of it all". The only reason I feel compelled to reply is because of your rude tone implying I'm at fault for not having an open-and-shut case. This is a turanist community, you can believe me who grew up around this kind of thinking or not, but don't act like I have an obligation to explain every detail of turkish racism just to get a dead comm deleted.

You have, however, posted links from another and unrelated website in claiming that that somehow bolsters your claim of fascism on this community

How is the subreddit that spawned the community, that it links back to, that it's named after unrelated??? How is the community that the guy opened after leaving lemmy.ml unrelated to this?? You probably know the nazi bar story but let me repeat it here

I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out."
And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And i was like, ohok and he continues. “you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.”

etc. you know the rest. The dude was acting all nice posting about his ancient heritage under a turanist flag. And I notice it so I thought I'd say something. Probably won't happen again though.

The thing that is concerning to me is that you seem to have zero problem going to this other website and looking for evidence of your claims but you refuse to do so here on Lemmy.

What's the concern? Genuinely, why is that concerning? I'm not even refusing to do so for the lemmy community, there just arent posts that are as clear cut. But even if, what are you so concerned about??

You literally just did that same effort in going to reddit, finding multiple posts, taking screenshots and making a comment.

Nooooo way is going to reddit and grabbing a few links the same effort as writing an essay about this "turkic" movement, how it ties back to the ottoman empire, how it is used to spread anticommunism and rally right-wingers internationally (e.g. Syria, Turkmenistan). And seeing your standard of proof I'd have to explain everything in excruciating detail and pull up the original sources.

different users, different mods, different posts.

Its the one user, that is most likely also active on that sub, a mod for all I know, and is just literally copying posts over. He is literally trying to recreate that sub, which I've just noticed has a göktürk sign next to it's name in case it just was not obvious enough what that community is.

You answered a lot, and I'm thankful for that.

No you aren't, don't do that shit with me. You don't get to talk down to me like that and then pretend like all you want is a completely reasonable effort post.

And like I said the only reason I'm even in here responding to all of this, is because you all make it look like I'm the unreasonable one for posting about an issue that isn't as clear-cut as to allow you all to make an instant decision.

[–] Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 week ago

regularly links back to a eugenicist community

See, this is shit I'm talking about. You're making a claim against the community that could be easily backed up with a link. You didn't bother. It's just "take my word".

Sorry it hasn’t made a post that made their intention quite as clear in the two days where the only poster was copying posts over from reddit.

Then, according to that, you could have easily grabbed links from the community but instead grabbed them from reddit? YOU are the one making this claim. It is on YOU to back it up. You do not get to act like the victim and act upset that someone has asked you to provide literally anything backing up your claim. My one stipulation was that it has to be from this community. That is it. For whatever reason, you're refusing and expecting everyone else to dig through and do the work to prove your claim. That isn't how this works.

How is the subreddit that spawned the community, that it links back to, that it’s named after unrelated???

Because it has different users and mods and is on a different website. The behavior of those users does not immediately equate to guilt of the users of the community on Lemmy. Moreover, you linked to several posts from reddit. If your claim is that they're automatically posted to lemmy, then why didn't you use the Lemmy posts? This is another example of bad faith.

How is the community that the guy opened after leaving lemmy.ml unrelated to this??

Because Lemmy is literally designed to allow for different communities on different instances. I have no idea what that has to do with this at all.

The dude was acting all nice posting about his ancient heritage under a turanist flag. And I notice it so I thought I’d say something. Probably won’t happen again though.

Yet again. Got any links of this community actually doing that? You have not done so.

What’s the concern? Genuinely, why is that concerning?

Because you cannot use solely the actions of another community to cast blame on this one without using evidence from this community to back your claims. I'm running out of ways to say the exact same thing.

I’m not even refusing to do so for the lemmy community

Yes. You are. You said:

I’ve decided not to go further with digging into the history of it all.

Is this not a refusal?

But even if, what are you so concerned about??

I'm concerned about someone who makes a claim about a group, provides zero evidence of this group doing what they claim, and then expecting everyone to take them at face value. That isn't how this works.

Nooooo way is going to reddit and grabbing a few links the same effort as writing an essay about this “turkic” movement, how it ties back to the ottoman empire, how it is used to spread anticommunism and rally right-wingers internationally

I did not ask for an essay. I asked for literally any evidence that this community is doing what you're claiming. You are the one inventing an essay. This is another example of bad faith. I have asked for something extremely simple, literally any links, and you are changing the standard of proof and getting angry about it.

And seeing your standard of proof I’d have to explain everything in excruciating detail and pull up the original sources.

My standard of proof is links from this community that back up what you're claiming. That's it. I've said this now several times in several comments. It's really not that difficult.

Its the one user, that is most likely also active on that sub, a mod for all I know, and is just literally copying posts over.

Then link to a problematic post.

which I’ve just noticed has a göktürk sign

The Cyberpunk-y image? Or the flag?

No you aren’t, don’t do that shit with me.

You're wrong. I am. I do like knowing more information and learning about this. Everything you've posted is useful information. You just haven't done the one thing of linking it to actions of this community. You're making a claim against groups as a whole but your initial post said:

that comm is a fascist op that is now being spread on lemmy

All I am asking is for you to provide literally any links of that community behaving in such a way. That's it. And you're refusing to do so.

then pretend like all you want is a completely reasonable effort post.

No, all I want are links to the community behaving in a way that you're claiming. That's significantly less effort than the comment you just typed.

you all make it look like I’m the unreasonable one for posting about an issue that isn’t as clear-cut as to allow you all to make an instant decision.

You all.

If everyone here is reacting in the same way then the problem isn't us.