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Goat and PugJesus take on DB0 ADMINS (lemmy.world)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by Canyon201@lemmy.world to c/fediverselore@lemmy.ca

235 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Starting with this post:

https://sh.itjust.works/post/44999037

Continues here:

https://sh.itjust.works/post/45035437

More posts discussing the fallout:

Dbzer0 admin claiming Uyghur genocide is 'overblown and misrepresented'

Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because "libs worse", yikes

Banned from meanwhileongrad for "No db0 allowed".

On Dbzer0, 'harassing mods' is when you criticize the top admin of .ml for responding to a Wiki link with a Lemmy search

Does lemmy.ml own db0? db0 denies the Uyghur genocide, begins to backtrack that maybe there are human rights abuses, and then immediately backs off as soon as lemmy.ml admin, Davel, steps in.

Tankie bar, db0, will remove your comments and ban you if you criticise lemmy.ml admin, Davel, for denying the Uyghur genocide

When the tankie bar, db0, is pushed about communists purging peasants, Davels swoops in with dehumanisation. Also, if you bring up the Holodomor then you're a nazi.

Removed false allegations against goat from a post on db0

An anarchist ~~tankie~~ did a write-up of the constant use of 'degenerate' as an insult specifically in the MoG comm

Another anarchist ~~tankie~~ did a write-up of the situation

More links: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570

https://sh.itjust.works/comment/329886

https://sh.itjust.works/post/151703/234360

https://sh.itjust.works/comment/338067

top 50 comments

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[–] CaptainBasculin@lemmy.bascul.in 0 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Wow, these guys surely take "side with me fully or you're the enemy" approach for no reason at all. db0 instance has never denied the Uyghur genocide, but people there are painting their moderation as a villain for no reason.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

My community never started this

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago

Lol

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

I think the action in the YE OLD POWERTRIPPING MODS community proves the point, no?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

db0 instance has never denied the Uyghur genocide, but people there are painting their moderation as a villain for no reason.

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[–] tyler@programming.dev 0 points 9 months ago (9 children)

They say the democrats have voted for arming Israel continually with trump. That’s just not true but is an incredibly common tankie point I’ve seen over and over again. Democrats have voted over and over again for stopping arming Israel. Literally go look at their voting records for the past 9 months.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago

Fucking lol

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

https://www.cair.com/action_alerts/cair-commends-27-senators-who-voted-to-block-weapons-for-israels-genocide-calls-vote-historic-sign-of-progress/

Dem leadership still voting for it

Did Not Vote (3 Senators): Gallego (D-AZ), Kelly (D-AZ), Slotkin (D-MI).

The following 17 Democratic Senators voted NO, choosing to continue arming an apartheid regime: Michael Bennet (D-CO), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Cory Booker (D-NJ), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Chris Coons (D-DE), Catherine Cortez Masto (D-NV), John Fetterman (D-PA), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Maggie Hassan (D-NH), John Hickenlooper (D-CO), Alex Padilla (D-CA), Gary Peters (D-MI), Jacky Rosen (D-NV), Adam Schiff (D-CA), Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Mark Warner (D-VA), and Ron Wyden (D-OR).

[–] tyler@programming.dev 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

17 of 50… that article doesn’t state what you think it does. And each bill has other things tacked onto it that Dems have to worry about as well. It’s not just “vote or not vote” for weapons.

If 17 if bad then 19 voting to stop weapons even last year is proving your point completely wrong. https://www.jta.org/2024/11/21/politics/19-senate-democrats-back-unsuccessful-attempt-to-block-weapons-shipments-to-israel

19 Senate Democrats back unsuccessful attempt to block weapons shipments to Israel

But of course facts don’t really matter here do they.

Vote in April: https://www.axios.com/2025/04/03/senate-democrats-cancel-military-aid-israel

Vote in June: https://ramirez.house.gov/media/press-releases/ramirez-jacobs-jayapal-pocan-18-members-congress-introduce-legislation

Notably those are the ones with terrible other stuff in them. Can’t win here.

https://time.com/7306765/democrats-senate-gaza-vote-israel-weapons/

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[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

Thank you my business is really suffering under Trump we need Gavin to bring in the AI REVOLUTION

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[–] Blaze@lazysoci.al 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Copy pasting from a comment below

@fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com explanation

FYI goat, i downvoted the post you screenshotted because the person, @isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de, made this disgusting comment and got permabanned on LW + here for it. He’s a horrible person, which is why i downvoted his post. Not because of the content.

I am not a tankie, not even hexbear/ml users consider me as such; I’ve also seen other stuff about me being a Soviet apologist (?) Which, no, from using the search feature, I have not it seems. Unless they’re including the time I was being nice to cowbee… ? Either way I personally do not have a positive opinion of the USSR but I really don’t want to get into that here.

I have also had a conversation with cowbee themselves once where I told them I disagree with them with the USSR, China and Ukraine about a week ago, so no, I am not an apologist for the Soviet union.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21109507

From @unruffled@anarchist.nexus

To be clear, if I haven’t been already, I 100% condemn China’s actions towards the Uyghurs. Is it technically a genocide? Depends what definition you’re working with, but to my mind it meets the definition.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21075559

On the other hand the single mod on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works seems quite ban happy lately, and resorting to debatable arguments

My community is also bigger lol

https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20731327

And the amount of posts on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works by that same single mod is concerning. How many of those do they need make, reusing the same screenshot ad nauseam when Unruffled recognized that China's actions towards the Uyghur meet the definition of a genocide (see comment above)?

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

as proven by cm002 the bigger community is more important that is why .world will win

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

I'll never understand why people care so much about this drama with instance admin of teeny tiny instances that don't even matter...

The only good community on db0 was the modabuse one...

Then they added a new mod and you couldn't post about blahja, couldn't post about an AI communities, can't post about vegan communities...

Basically, if their new mod agrees with who you're complaining about on any topic, they just delete the post.

Just block their entire instance.

Making these huge posts about how a teeny tiny corner of the fedicerse sucks doesn't accomplish anything, you're just feeding the trolls.

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The instance needs to be defederated like the rest of the Tankie networks they platform.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Someone really needs to touch grass :D

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Someone really needs to touch grass :D

Went outside and touched grass as per usual; still have not become an Uyghur genocide denier, nor have I decided to allow Holodomor genocide denial, nor have I defended Vanguardist parties suppressing democracy whilst claiming to be an anarchist.

I guess it's just you.

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[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'll provide a lot of context later on; I have a busy few days, so I'll be unavailable to engage in fedidrama.

Unlike tankies and apologists, I'll supply full context, with absolutely everything.

tl;dr: Tankie bar.

Summarised version for now:

Db0 users and admins have been continuously defending tankies on my anti-tankie community, !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works. They also host tankies such as Devals, who is a lemmy.ml admin. They also host open antisemites.

Their community, !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com, is good in concept, but in practice ends up being a snark community where they attack the moderator based on political views as opposed to whether or not the user broke the rules. Case in point, the user denied genocide, was temporarily banned, yet their snark community flocked to their defence and engaged in more genocide denialism. Any attempts of explanation and communication was met with ridicule and slander.

They then brigade, calling me, my community and random users nazis and fascists. They say it's because one user, just one, uses 'degenerate' and 'roach' to refer to tankies. I counter, I supply evidence, I explain that tankies also use dehumanising language and as does db0's instance, yet we get banned. So I banned them back.

If we're nazis because one user used the word degenerate and roach, then they're tankies for, you know, defending actual tankies lol

Perhaps this is all just a misunderstanding, perhaps it's a series of coincidences or happenstances. But from my perspective, I got sick of their trolling and called out their hypocrisy.

[–] Blaze@lazysoci.al 0 points 9 months ago

perhaps it’s a series of coincidences or happenstances.

I got sick of their trolling and called out their hypocrisy.

From @unruffled@anarchist.nexus , Saturday 30th August 3:45 PM GMT+02

To be clear, if I haven’t been already, I 100% condemn China’s actions towards the Uyghurs. Is it technically a genocide? Depends what definition you’re working with, but to my mind it meets the definition.

Since then (Saturday 30th August 3:45 PM GMT+02):

https://sh.itjust.works/post/45183748?scrollToComments=true - that post is about a comment removal that got removed in the meantime, since that post is still up, nothing indicates that the decision has been reverted
https://sh.itjust.works/post/45256257/20767674 : in a thread related to a ban on a dbzer0 community, you still bring up genocide denial, while you know that has been contradicted by the comment above:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/45256403 - you misinterpret the use of 'disengage', in this case the user (not mod, not admin) just didn't want to get into a conversation again, assuming they 'obeyed to a supreme leader' (https://sh.itjust.works/post/45256403/20767743) is either bad faith or purposefully twisting facts
https://sh.itjust.works/post/45129833 - you paint dbzer0 as calling everyone they disagree with a nazi, people in the comments explain you why it's incorrect, but you keep arguing that db0 supports genocide denial (https://sh.itjust.works/post/45129833/20735846)

Calling out hypocrisy, based on the posts above, doesn't look the most genuine.

Note about another db0 admin clarification

FYI goat, i downvoted the post you screenshotted because the person, @isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de, made this disgusting comment and got permabanned on LW + here for it. He’s a horrible person, which is why i downvoted his post. Not because of the content.

I am not a tankie, not even hexbear/ml users consider me as such; I’ve also seen other stuff about me being a Soviet apologist (?) Which, no, from using the search feature, I have not it seems. Unless they’re including the time I was being nice to cowbee… ? Either way I personally do not have a positive opinion of the USSR but I really don’t want to get into that here.

I have also had a conversation with cowbee themselves once where I told them I disagree with them with the USSR, China and Ukraine about a week ago, so no, I am not an apologist for the Soviet union.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21109507

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I knew from the beginning that being able to see who votes how on what will cause some shit.

But like @givesomefucks@lemmy.world already said: block that skynet instance and be done with it.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago

It does seem like an obvious drama factory for people that don't have the proper mentality of laughing at someone for bringing up votes, calling them a loser that needs to touch grass and blocking them so they don't waste any more of your life

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

why are you against user information and transparency? only tankies want to hide things

[–] socsa@piefed.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

100% this. And so many people still say we need it because it "stops vote brigading." Which it obviously doesn't even do.

Meanwhile this kind of drama is getting worse, and we haven't even scraped the surface of potential downsides yet. I, for one, can't wait until we have armies of AI driven astroturf bots which use public voting vote to target engagement far beyond what is possible with just comments.

If you don't want down votes to impact post visibility as much then change the algorithm to do that. Hell, give mods tools to just quietly ignore down votes entire on a case by case basis. Bothe of these things are stupidly simple and would be vastly more effective at dealing with vote brigades than mods making Pepe DaSilva sting graphs trying to root out connected users.

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago

Its more that it does effectively nothing.

You don't even need to run an instance to see vote history. ActivityPub federates all activity across, and lemmy does not obfuscate in any way.

Any real change to address this would have to be done much lower than whether or not lemvotes sees it.

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago

Its still extremely visible, that does just about nothing, FYI.

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (7 children)

Just going to add another post discussing this; I did a write-up of the constant use of 'degenerate' as an insult specifically in the MoG comm on hexbear, and cited the inciting incident as the latest people to get dubbed 'tankies' by this crew.

It's a fascist dogwhistle, especially the way its use is normalized on MoG. Their specialty is in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point, and consequently all abuse is then fair game. Ironic that they immediately started trying to flip the script with accusations of 'tankie bar'

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

ill add it to the post thank you

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Thanks! the only correction I have is that I'm actually an anarchist, I feel like a broken record sometimes having to explain that.

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

(I kid, thanks for the correction)

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Thanks! the only correction I have is that I’m actually an anarchist, I feel like a broken record sometimes having to explain that.

It might be the constant defence of the PRC, the repeating of Russian propaganda on Ukraine, and simping for an instance that literally removes posts which point out genocide by fascist polities which are painted red, which cause people to correct identify you elsewise.

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago (27 children)

Believe it or not, passing your online purity tests about geopolitics is not what makes someone an anarchist.

Your use of 'tankie' is just 'disagrees with me from the left' and it's been on full display.

as I said earlier:

Their specialty is in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point, and consequently all abuse is then fair game.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

Ironic that they immediately started trying to flip the script with accusations of ‘tankie bar’

It was pointed out that in that very fucking thread there was Holodomor and Uyghur genocide denial, which would make, by the same argument as the 'Nazi bar' accusations being leveled, DB0 a tankie bar.

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[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

.... you all do know that goat specifically says they just like riling people up, right?

And you're just gobbling down the nonsense and getting riled up?

With claims of things that go directly against the rules of the instance?

This is some weird ass shit stirring going on. Enjoy your manufactured drama folks.

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Just documenting important lemmy-lore

[–] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago

LOL sure thing bud.

[–] hypnicjerk@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

everyone sucks here

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Only one is sending assholes to others

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[–] cloudless@piefed.social 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Thanks. I’m going to unsubscribe from communities hosted there. Might eventually block their instance.

[–] Canyon201@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I think it is time to add @PugJesus@lemmy.world and @goat@sh.itjust.works to the team with @cm0002@lemmy.world as the people fighting to save the Threadiverse from the tankie-scum. Not surprised to see this I was calling @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com and @unruffled@anarchist.nexus tankies for months.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago

If you have examples of their tankieness, feel free to run it by !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

DB0 used to remove Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor denial. It's sad that now they regard that as permitted. Now they even defend vanguard parties overthrowing democratic elections.

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[–] Blaze@lazysoci.al 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

For me, it's kind of the opposite.

@fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com explanation

FYI goat, i downvoted the post you screenshotted because the person, @isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de, made this disgusting comment and got permabanned on LW + here for it. He’s a horrible person, which is why i downvoted his post. Not because of the content.

I am not a tankie, not even hexbear/ml users consider me as such; I’ve also seen other stuff about me being a Soviet apologist (?) Which, no, from using the search feature, I have not it seems. Unless they’re including the time I was being nice to cowbee… ? Either way I personally do not have a positive opinion of the USSR but I really don’t want to get into that here.

I have also had a conversation with cowbee themselves once where I told them I disagree with them with the USSR, China and Ukraine about a week ago, so no, I am not an apologist for the Soviet union.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21109507

From @unruffled@anarchist.nexus

To be clear, if I haven’t been already, I 100% condemn China’s actions towards the Uyghurs. Is it technically a genocide? Depends what definition you’re working with, but to my mind it meets the definition.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21075559

On the other hand single mod on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works seems quite ban happy lately, and resorting to debatable arguments

My community is also bigger lol

https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20731327

[–] cloudless@piefed.social 0 points 9 months ago (18 children)

This is really confusing to me now...

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Join the club. I have no idea what's happening, there's accusations and counter accusations flying everywhere. I'm gonna wait for things to die down and get the TLDR from somebody trustworthy.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

There isn't anyone trustworthy, there is only the comment chains of petty internet drama and only fools spend more time on this than it takes to block someone

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Maybe I can weigh in here as a neutralish third party observer. I like goat and Pug, but I think they are taking this too seriously and being a bit too terminally online. I also like db0, but I think the accusations of them protecting tankies is credible. I think the specific accusations against Davel and uruffled are also credible, though for slightly different reasons I won't go into here. Everyone knows tankies gonna tank.

What it comes down to is that I think there has been a real effort to bait goat and Pug into this interaction, and this kind of thing has happened a few different times with different users who have run afoul of the tankie triad. I think goat and Pug kind of took the bait and need to chill out, and I think db0 needs to be more open to the idea that a few tankie power users really are trying to manipulate large portions of the fediverse, including their instance. Tankies are a problem on the fediverse, and to some degree I do kind of applaud goat and Pug for trying to stand up to them, but now we are just into useless shit slinging meta.

More than anything though, I think this is a great example of how public voting drives this kind of toxicity.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe I can weigh in here as a neutralish third party observer. I like goat and Pug, but I think they are taking this too seriously and being a bit too terminally online. I also like db0, but I think the accusations of them protecting tankies is credible. I think the specific accusations against Davel and uruffled are also credible, though for slightly different reasons I won’t go into here. Everyone knows tankies gonna tank.

Goat has been overreacting by banning dbzer0 users as a whole. And apparently sending people pics of an asshole? That's enough for me to decouple from MOG, honestly.

While I'm obviously biased, I don't think I've been overreacting simply by calling out literal fucking genocide denial.

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[–] null@lemmy.nullspace.lol 0 points 9 months ago

Have the piefed devs added them to the default instance blocklist yet?

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