this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2025
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[–] Zeusz13@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If your character has no reason to stay either the plothook was insufficient or you made a bad character. Both should be adressed ooc.

[–] positiveWHAT@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Create a new character that does have a reason to stick around.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

they should not meet in session 1.

Strongly disagree. Nothing wrong with doing that, but nothing wrong with having them meet in session 1 too, as long as you have built characters who will be willing to go along with the GM's hooks.

And even that part is flexible, depending on the nature of the hook. If the hook is "you see an ad look for rat exterminators", then you better have a character who wants to be an adventurer and will cooperate with other would-be adventurers. If the hook is "you're prisoners being ordered to go explore this dungeon by order of the vizier", there's room for slightly less cooperative PCs, as long as you PC is cooperative enough to go along with that order, even if (at first) reluctantly.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev 0 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Meeting people with the inclination and schedule that I enjoy the company of to make a party with is the worst part of d&d. Please don't wake me role play it, too.

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[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The DM came up with the plot hook and the players agreed to play, so the players need to put some effort into finding a reason to go along with the plot hook.

Suggestions on making the hook more engaging is an option too!

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[–] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Or third option: the person is operating independent of Table expectations or their character. Some folks just don’t get it and frankly I wonder why they want to play the game. It’s incredibly rare, but I have seen it.

You don’t have to put on a voice in a costume and write 20 pages of lore, but if you’re going to play at my table, I expect you to remain in character unless you have a question for me more or less. I expect you to take it seriously and use basic social etiquette. I’ve never played with somebody who was incapable of realizing that they are not being fun/funny, or considerate. They just get main character syndrome and stop listening to people for some reason.

It’s all about listening. If you’re capable of being at a table with a few people in life, then you’re capable of playing D&D!

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

For me, as a DM, real shit always happens on session 1, you swim together or fucking die.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

THANK. YOU.

Players who do this ARE BAD PLAYERS. I don't care what it takes, you WILL find a reason to cooperate. Call it metagaming if you have to. This is a team game, you will work as a team.

Players are expected to make characters that will, for whatever reason, will work together and, for whatever reason, will take plot hooks. Without those two things the game doesn't happen.

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[–] ideonek@piefed.social 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Compleatly understandable. Roll three d20... unfortunelty, your character died from sevear case of buzz kill. Go ahead an roll out n new one that is exactly like this one but more trusty toward people exactly like those in the party.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In game punishments are the worst for these kinds of issues, just talk to each other.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 0 points 11 months ago

That's a much better advice. Much worse joke though.

[–] bluelander@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My fix has always been: that's fine! They go off on their own adventures. Now please roll a character that's going to play the game we're running here tonight.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I just don't DM for people like that anymore.

Oh god I might when my kids and their friends are older though. This is why you gotta raise em right.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I recently tried to DM for my son and his friends. One of his friends insisted he wanted to be a DM. I tried to gently encourage him to allow me to DM for them, and he would have much more fun as a player. Nope, he insisted, and like a good DM, I let him discover for himself why he was wrong. It was fun to be a player character, and they all learned a lot about running a game, so wins all around.

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[–] bluelander@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I GM public games and games at conventions, so sometimes it still crops up. People don't always make it readily apparent ahead of game time that they're going to pull shenanigans like this.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's fair. I'm really picky with my games.

[–] bluelander@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago

For my personal games I am as well.

"Make friends with gamers, don't make gamers out of friends" is an old tabletop adage that took me a long time to really learn.

For public stuff the best that can usually be mustered are safety tools and clear guidelines. But (rarely, thankfully) some people are just there to sabotage.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 0 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I started running games for my wife and her niblings, and the oldest boy is getting into that "I'm such a rebel" phase where they think they're bad ass for taking slightly longer to do a chore than needed and say "no" the first time you ask them to do something.

He thought it was hilarious to have a character that refused to join the rest of the group, so I said "okay, you can stay at the inn if you want" and then proceeded to intentionally ignore anything he was saying or doing, leaving him out of rolls, and never addressing him.

He's 12 and started literally crying to his mother about how we're all being mean to him. Apparently "he had the opportunity to participate and chose not to" wasn't a good enough response to his mother. I stand by my choice. Although my wife managed to convince me to let him "rejoin" at the next town/session.

He doesn't pull that shit anymore though, when he's playing he's playing or he gets shut out again.

Genuine question to anyone reading: does that make me a bad DM? If so, suggestions on how to handle it?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Tell him "look, this game isn't about being a Total Badass By Yourself. It's about working with your team and overcoming challenges you couldn't otherwise. If you wanna be a Total Badass By Yourself, there are games you can play. But if you wanna play this, you're gonna have to work with me here. Because my time and effort is valuable, and I want to have fun just like you do.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I really need to do some kind of team building exercise before a game, something that they'll want to do, but requires teamwork, just to demonstrate the point that they need to work together.

When my first character did the whole "I'm gonna be all by myself because I'm a lone wolf" thing, the DM let me go off and the totally unexpected happened and my character got into a scuffle he wasn't prepared for, but a group sure would have been.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes you do.

The easy way out is "abuse action economy". There are better uses for it, though, and better options here.

The other easy way out is to let people roll to see if something happens. Never, ever allow stalled play to resort to this. They have to search and talk.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

let people roll to see if something happens

Oh god so many DMs in the past have done this, and I just roll my eyes every time.

Like I'm okay if you want to roll your own dice behind the screen to see if we get attacked overnight, but that should be the only kind of "roll to see what happens" going on.

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[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think that was the right action, but you could have explained better. Instead of just "Ok, you stay at the tavern" something like "Ok, you can stay at the tavern if you really want to, but you do understand that will mean you're sitting here bored all afternoon while the rest of us play, right?"

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I told him multiple times that if he was going to try and do his own thing, he won't be participating with the group, and the group is the entire focus of the game.

I suppose I could have made it more explicit that he could join the group or he could leave the game.

I should add that that was many games ago, and he has since begun participating, although he often tries to go his own way and threatens to leave the group constantly, but so far he hasn't actually tried leaving the group unless it was agreed upon for strategy reasons. (they split up inside a crypt in the most horror movie fashion possible)

[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 0 points 11 months ago

Yeah, in that case I think you did everything that could reasonably be expected of you.

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[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 0 points 11 months ago

Everybody's gotta learn some time

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

I learned as a GM to set expectations.

"I don't want to have to fight and force you in to making this game work, because even though I'm GMing, I'd like to enjoy myself too. You need to create a character that will want to stick around with the rest of the group. You don't have to all get on, or have deep attachments, you just need a character that I won't have to railroad"

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

100% this. Have a conversation about expectations before you begin. DnD is a little bit game, a little bit therapy. The DM isn't your Unity Engine. Make sure everyone is on board for the same experience and you'll be fine.

[–] bluelander@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago

This is a good take. I remind players all the time that even though I'm GMing I'm a player too. I'm just playing a slightly different game. I'm here to have fun and enjoy myself, not babysit.

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[–] PunnySN@piefed.social 0 points 11 months ago

Gotta build those connections and relationships into the party during session zero. I like to model mine after the game fiasco where players are linked by relationships, locations, objects or needs. For DnD I think the dragon slayer classic playset works best, you can find it under the downloads section

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I have been a Dungeon Master for over 25 years. I am also a longtime anarchist, and many of my regular players are not.

I have three rules if im going to DM: 1) I pick the game system. Sorry, non-negotiable. I'll play 5e (if I have to) but I won't run it. 2) Party resources are communal. However you wanna work that out is up to you, but if you steal from The Party, The Gods will Curse You. And 3) You have to be willing to work in a group. This isn't Skyrim, its a party game. The whole point is social problem solving. If you're not up for that, its cool, I won't make you talk or anything - but you gotta be a part of the team. Part of that is on me to make the initial hook good enough, but part of it is on you not to run a counterproductive pain in my ass.

I almost never have any problems if I do my job right and make all this clear and understood off the bat.

[–] stingpie@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Sorry for being off-topic, but I don't think I understand anarchism as a political philosophy. Isn't anarchism the absence of imposed rules? Communal resources seems to go against that, (it does make sense that the players get to divvy it up, though) and being cursed by the gods feels like a more theocratic thing than anarchist. Im not trying to be rude or anything, I just like to pick people's brains about this stuff.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Communal resources seems to go against that

Mutual aid is a fundamental principle of (most types of) anarchism, as is freedom of association.

In other words: if the PCs don't like it, they can make their own game with their own rules.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Thank you. ✊️

I'm not hurting for players. I run my game exactly as often as I want to.

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[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah. He has a lot of rules and demands for an "anarchist" lol.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Anarchism means "no rulers" not "no rules". If we all consent then what's the problem?

IRL consent is complicated by coercion - you can't disagree with your boss because if they fire you, you can't pay your bills.

DND is an asymmetrical activity. One person, the DM, has an outsized level of effort required. If im expected to create a whole world, NPCs, plots, and respond to all your nonsense, I think its totally fair to ask the players abide by a simple code of conduct.

Again, I've almost never had issues.

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[–] sharkfinsoup@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Political anarchy is not inherently against rules. Anarchy does not mean that everything is on fire and everyone steals from others and do whatever they want, that's just a common misconception.

Also it's only 3 pretty basic rules, nothing particularly crazy about them

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[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

See my other reply re: "no rules"

Also, just read the first chapter or two of this. It's very, very accessible https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

I've got a second tho so I'll try:

  1. it means "no rulers", from Greek. Not no rules. You can't have more than 2 people without some rules, we just want to all be able to agree with them. Anarchists by and large are opposed to hierarchy, that's the focus. We tend to like direct democracy and communal organizational structures.

The stories I tell don't have to be purely anarchist in structure. If im DMing, and we all agreed to the God Curse if you screw over your party, and then one player does - who's responsible? The one with full knowledge of the consequences who then did the thing anyway, right?

Look: as a political philosophy, anarchism exists in the real world. There are people who've done it very successfully. But that's not why I call myself an anarchist. I do so because when I discovered anarchism, I found other people who thought the way I did. I'm an anarchist because my soul is anarchist and always has been. I also think its what we need to do if we're going to survive climate change, but fuck me for trying to convince anyone of that, so I keep to myself.

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[–] SARGE@startrek.website 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm a big fan of "you all wake up in loincloths sitting in a wagon, hands bound" and as long as someone at the table can roll higher than a 1, they can break free.

Or something attacks them while they're all in a tavern

Basically I'm a fan of "you could ignore having your shit kicked in, but will you?" since so many players would stop at nothing.

Fallout NV had the right idea. "Where's that little fucker who shot me in the head?!"

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 0 points 11 months ago

Hey, you. You’re finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right?

[–] Ziggurat@jlai.lu 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The whole We play a game so you have to cooperate together even if role-play wise it makes no sense is a bad practice, May-be not at the point you'll leave the table but definitely a serious sign that the table doesn't function properly.

Luckily, there is a very easy fix Do a session zero, and build a coherent party ab initio, it include in game reason for the party to work together, coherent goals (because when player A wants to abolish the reign of the emperor, and player B wants to defend the emperor you'll have a PvP fight within 3 session) and a meta discussion to have a pallet of skills matching the party's goal (At least in more epic game where you don't want to feel powerless). Almost every RPG published in the last 10-15 years contains an extensive session zero guide and tons of tips to build a relevant party.

If someone wants to play a law priest in a pirate campaign or any other character not fitting the campaign theme or opposing other PCs, it's perfectly OK to tell the no. Obviously if everybody is aligned on some PvP and betrayal the answer may be different, but it's again something to address in session zero.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

Nobody in here is saying "even if rp wise it makes no sense". We're saying exactly what you are - the DM and the players set boundaries as to what kind of game they wanna play and are willing to, and then you make PCs.

Don't be an edgelord Rogue who's too cool to work with anyone else. Go play Skyrim.

[–] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 0 points 11 months ago

There's a few ways I have approached this as a GM. I'll go from least to most effective (and, I feel, mature).

The first is to put a shared enemy in front of the party, so that even if the characters do split up, they're working towards the same goal. The character who has "no reason" to trust the party also has reason to recognize the effectiveness of sticking with allies in a world full of enemies. If the player wants them to go off on their own, fine, but as GM, the game stays with the party - oh, and have the player who left roll on a random injury table because they were outnumbered.

Second is to invoke the "Wolverine Approach". Wolverine in Marvel Comics always goes on and on about not being a team player, being a bad person, being a loner, etc. - and he certainly has had his fair share of solo adventures. At the same time, there was at least one month where nearly every major Marvel title had Wolverine in it - Avengers, West Coast Avengers, X-Men, the Defenders, Spider-Man, Marvel Team-Up, Alpha Flight, etc.. And because it was in the era where She-Hulk was part of the F4, he had a cameo there because of the WCA. Wolverine might claim to not be a team player, and he might be a pain in the rear end, but he's always there if there's a villain to be thwarted or a fight to be had. You have a right to have your character complain. Just stick in or near the party. I don't care if you sleep in a different hotel or a separate camp. Be there in the important scenes.

Third, "Take it or leave it". I'm not ashamed of myself for this one - I have told people, this is the game we're playing. if you want to play this game, I want to have you. If you don't want to play what we're playing under the terms we're all in agreement on, there's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out. It's effective, but I don't think it's the most mature method in my arsenal because of the all-or-nothing nature.

Fourth is an open and frank discussion. Explain that the concept of the game is cooperative. Make sure you get buyin from everyone, not just the loner. Express the expectation I have of both players and characters for the game in play. Paranoia, for instance, has a very different set of expectations and goals than Shadowrun or Spirit of the Century / Dresden / Fate. I have GMed for a loner character in a Fate game who never showed up with the other players, but because the system is so narratively driven, they were helpful by setting up Aspects with free tags because the character could realistically be "doing his own thing" and still contribute. So I've learned to be open and clear with my goals and intentions. I don't care if your character is going to be a pain - I care whether or not you as a player will contribute positively to everyone's experience in a fair way.

The more we are clear about goals and intentions, and the more we can apply nuance and understanding to the situation, the better our games will be.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago

I actually made this work in a recent cheesy short campaign. My character was an intelligent monkey, although he was still an animal and couldn't speak. After meeting the party, he decided to go do his own thing, which just so happened to be the same thing as the rest of the party.

It worked out really well. The rest of the party could navigate social challenges without having to explain the monkey, I could sneak around and grab MacGuffins without having to accommodate huge humans who were terrible at climbing.

I doubt it works well for longer or more serious games, but it matched the hectic nature of the campaign and led to some hilarious moments.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

That's why it's pretty common in Shadowrun to just have everyone be kidnapped and fitted with a bomb in their skull.

If their character doesn't want to cooperate, you activate the player's brain bomb.

[–] TotallyNotSpezUpload@startrek.website 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You mean the player character's bomb, right?

Also, Cortex bombs are lame and lazy plot- & storywriting.

  • GM with 20 years experience
[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You mean the player character's bomb, right?

No. 😈

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[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Mac and cheese for dinner is lame and lazy too, but also fucking delicious. TTRPGS are something your friends put together for you out of love, not necessarily some clinically perfect professional product. And to extend the metaphor, if you go to a dinner party and start bitching about your friend not plating the food like a Michelin star place, you're an asshole.

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's not common in Shadowrun... 30+ years playing and running that game, and I've never encountered it!

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