Get your anti Commie propaganda in those movies : ManufacturingConsent

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 45 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Lmao even wiki calls on this "perfect" narrative:

[–] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 51 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Shchadov was portrayed in the HBO mini series Chernobyl by Michael Colgan,[9] but the drama lowered his age and depth of experience in the coal industry for dramatic and narrative purposes.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Shchadov

better to just copy the text, comrade :^)

[–] techognito@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

But an image contains a 1000 words /s

or just 35 in this instance

[–] Soot@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm going to spend the rest of my life correcting people in vain on the falsehoods they have integrated as truth from this stupid show.

One day maybe Westerners will think to learn history from something other than fictional media.

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 29 points 1 month ago

Soot

I don't know, you seem like someone with a vested interest in accuracy around coal

[–] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 19 points 1 month ago

This show would have made me really mad if covid didn't come out and this feel like a response to it

[–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Chernobyl pisses me off because its a genuinely excellent piece of television in terms of the cinematography, casting, acting, set design, storytelling etc. but of COURSE it has to toe the line on the ahistorical and unscientific propaganda bullshit around chernobyl to ruin all the hard work people put into the show.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Subconscious propaganda is pushed super hard in all mainstream Western entertainment when you start investigating it. It's all very much on purpose.

I recently found out many of the most racist anti-Muslim trope characters in C&C Generals Zero Hour were voiced by an Israeli Jew

[+] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com -14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Ugh no he wasn't? Schadov was born in a peasant family in Irkutsk Region and up until 1944 (when he was 17) he was working around/on collective farm. In 1944 he entered a college, finished in 1948 at the age of 21 and was assigned as a mechanic to a mine.

So no, he didn't mine coal since he was a teenager.

Edit: oh golly y'all are sensitive about Soviet propaganda. The scene in Chernobyl is blocks because a) nobody in USSR would put a finger on a minister; b) at the depicted moment from 1979 Schadov was in his late 50s; c) he was generally respected by working miners and the dispute was about administrative measures.

But the statement in screenshot is still wrong.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 month ago (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Shchadov

Shchadov began his career at 15, working in a mine in Cheremkhovo as a site manager.[3] Then, he became the chief engineer and head of a mine.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

That's incorrect translation.

В сентябре 1944 года приехал в Черемхово и поступил там на электромеханическое отделение горного техникума.

He only arrived in Chremkhovo when he was 17.

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

17 is still a teenager

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He still didn't work in the mine until he was 20.

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As already said there are multiple contradicting sources. Regardless of if he was working in a mine as an actual teenager or one year out of his teenage years as your source implies: that still proves that his portrayal in the Chernobyl show as an out-of-touch bureaucrat that had never worked in a mine is false.

That along with other changes to reality and outright fabrications of events and and people like 'Ulana Khomyuk' shows that it is not historically accurate(even beyond the 'dramatic license' given to works of entertainment portraying historical events) and is written by biased westerners who go to lengths to portray Soviet officials as more inexperienced, sexist etc than they were in reality

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't think the translation is incorrect. If you want to doubt something you can only doubt the original source being incorrect

[+] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com -10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

That's a different source which also doesn't say that he worked in mines. It literally just says "started working at 15'. And it overlooks his college period where he was educated to do that work later.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Source your own claim then

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sure why not

С 1936 года учился школе, окончив в 1943 году 7 классов. Затем в течение одного года работал в колхозе «Ангарстрой» (до осени 1944 года). В сентябре 1944 года приехал в Черемхово и поступил там на электромеханическое отделение горного техникума (ЧГТ).

В 1948 году окончил Черемховский горный техникум, был отличником. Все дипломы с отличием:

окончил в 1953 году Высшие инженерные курсы при Томском политехническом институте по специальности «Разработка пластовых (угольных) месторождений», горный инженер;

в 1965 году — Всесоюзный финансово-экономический заочный институт по специальности «Экономика промышленности», экономист; и в том же году — Высшую партийную школу при ЦК КПСС.

В 1977 г. успешно выполнил учебный план и выпускную работу в Институте управления народным хозяйством в области современных методов управления, организации производства и планирования с применением экономико-математических методов и вычислительной техники.

Трудовую деятельность начал с 15 лет. После окончания техникума получил распределение на шахту и был назначен механиком участка шахты, с мая 1949 года начальник участка, затем заместитель главного механика шахты.

https://itexts.net/avtor-mihail-ivanovich-schadov/

Another one, https://www.ugolinfo.ru/Free/spec2007.pdf

После окончания в 1948 г. Черемховского горного техникума М.И. Щадов работал электрослесарем на шахте "Коксовая" им. Сталина в Кузбассе, затем механиком, начальником участка, ...

В Томском политехническом институте (университете) ВИК начали работать в 1948 г. В 1950 г. приехал учиться из Черемхова Михаил Иванович Щадов. Ему было тогда 23 года, но он уже владел немалым жизненным багажом – отлично окончил горный техникум, три года отработал механиком участка шахты

There are no sources that claim that he was in mines since teen years. At best he was around mines at 17. No evidence whatsoever that he was a miner, more an engineer.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

Translated:

He started his career at the age of 15. After graduating from the technical school, he received a distribution to the mine and was appointed mechanic of the mine, since May 1949, the head of the site, then the deputy chief mechanic of the mine. After graduating from the Higher Engineering Courses - Chief Mine Engineer, since 1955 - the head of mines. Manager of the Trust "Mamslyuda" (1960-1963). Since 1966, he worked at the Vostsibugol plant as deputy chief, then as the head of the plant, then as the general director of Vostsibugol software. Deputy Minister (1977), First Deputy Minister (1981), Minister (1985-1991) of the USSR Coal Industry. President of the International Mining Congress, Director General of the Finance and Industrial Complex "Transugol" (1991).

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 7 points 1 month ago

I looked through a couple different sources and a lot of them seem to conflict with each other. There are some that claim he came from a peasant family, when it seems his father was instead a chairman of a kolkhoz, which would be a fairly influential local leader who would work directly with the central party.

There are sources that claim he began his career as a site manager, mechanic, or electrical technician at the age of 15 or 17. He has sources claiming that he graduated in 47, 48, and 53 from two different technical colleges and then getting a degree in economics in 65.

It really is hard to parse out exactly what is what especially since a lot of the different bibliographies have broken original sources or are just missing.

[–] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Трудовую деятельность начал с 15 лет. Работал на шахте в Черемхово начальником участка, главным инженером, начальником шахты.

The biography says he started his career at 15? I'm not sure what its trying to say about that

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I'm saying that

Working in minutes since teens

Is factually incorrect. He only arrived somewhere where there mines to work at at 17.

[–] Aria@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 month ago

But 17 is teenage? Or are you saying he was working near a mine at 17 but not at a mine?

[–] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Is English your primary language? 17 is spelled out seventeen so teens would be between 13 (thirteen) and 19 (nineteen). I know other languages do other conventions for numbering.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Is English your primary language? 'Arrived in region where there were mines at 17' is very different from 'worked in mines since teen years'. See more direct quote in here, he started working at mine when he was 20, as an engineer and never worked as miner.

[–] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

Either way the commentary that show was trying to make is pretty impotent and pathetic which is the real motivation behind this post. Let's all have a hearty chuckle at the flaccid attempts the aniti communists are making che-smile

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The claims are conflicting depending on what sources you are utilizing. It does not look like there are very many primary sources for this time of his life. Most of the information I've seen gloss over his early career and have a lot of conflicting information, tending to focus mostly on his later career.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They are really not when you read original sources. More here.

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 2 points 1 month ago

I don't know if I would really consider the first an original source, especially considering they do not source the information from an interview or a specific biography.

The second one is better and I did see that one before, it just kinda glosses over the time period everyone is arguing about.

I think a lot of the confusion is probably coming down to translation, the first source is kinda structured oddly. And I think other English sources are scraping parts of it and stringing it together incorrectly.

Mainly the bit about him starting his working career is being interpreted as he started work in his field of experience at 15.

"He attended school from 1936, completing seventh grade in 1943. He then worked on the Angarstroy collective farm for one year (until the fall of 1944). In September 1944, he arrived in Cheremkhovo and enrolled in the electromechanical department of the mining technical school (ChGT).

In 1948, he graduated from the Cheryomkhovo Mining College with honors. All his diplomas were awarded with distinction:

He began his working career at the age of 15. After graduating from technical school, he was assigned to a mine and was appointed a mechanic in a mine section, then a section manager in May 1949, then deputy chief mechanic of the mine. After graduating from the Higher Engineering Courses, he became the chief engineer of the mines and, since 1955"

Inventing Reality