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A) people on the spectrum can be cruel "for no reason"
B) "no reason" actually means "a reason I don't consider as valid" not that I am saying that cruelty is justified, just that people will have their reasons, even if they are simple as "i was bored"
Yeah this infantilization is not helping anything.
C) NT people don't instantly accept cruelty as normal and go theough the same "why did this happen" experience
I've found a working hypothesis that seems mostly true.
"No-one is the villain of their own story."
If someone seems to be doing something evil for no reason, you likely don't understand their reasoning. It might not be a good reason, from my perspective, but they will have a reason. Once you can figure out where your values differ, it often becomes obvious why they are acting that way.
My wife cheated on me.
She said she was terribly sorry and wanted to work to save the marriage. We went to individual counseling and then tried couples counseling. She derailed that session by lying almost right off the bat.
She promised nothing would ever happen again, but never took any steps to rebuild trust, other than to say, "Trust me Bro."
Fast forward 2 kids and 15+ years. She cheated again and has twisted everything around to be my fault. She made me the villain, so she doesn't have too feel guilty. But then she really believes her bullshit. Says she wants to try and work it out, but then refuses transparency and digs her heels in when I mention couples counseling.
This sucks. She has said some shit that totally took me by surprise. Like, how could she possibly believe the things she was saying. But she did it.
So now, I am 50 years old, have a 12 and 14 year old, and have to re-figure out my life.
I was so dumbfounded when she said the things she did. Like it broke my brain it was such bullshit.
Of course, she's not toxic, I am the one with all the issues.
Saying this sucks doesn't do it justice. I hope you end up on the other side of this better than you are now.
Hey I believe in you man. Shit like this can be hard in the moment, but youve still got yourself and your kids. There will be some hard days, but you can do it. As long as there's life there's hope and you're still here.
Damn that sucks man. I'm sorry that happened to you. Just a reminder that your feelings are valid. You'll be OK at some point but it's absolutely normal to not be OK now.
None of that was about her reason. How did she make it your fault?
If that's just an excuse, a post-hoc justification, what do you think is the real reason?
My sympathies. I wish you strength in this sudden change in your life! 💜🫂
Ah, well, except for pathological issues like narcissists and psychopaths for example. There are quite a few people who do evil things and state that they do it because it's their right and privilege to do so.
But still, those are exceptions to the rule.
They might see themselves as privileged, but rarely as the villain. Narcissists see themselves as the hero, through a VERY distorted lens. Sociopaths don't get the empathy feedback making them the villain.
It's a good way to get a handle on their minds. How would it have to be twisted to make it seem either a non-issue or good.
E.g. the rich see money as closer to a score in a computer game. Blue shelling your brother in Mario Kart, just before the finish doesn't make you a villain. Similarly taking $50 dollars/month more from 10,000 families doesn't look bad. That's barely a trip to the pub! (The low income households involved would disagree massively).
*your
I wish the people who just can’t get this right would simply default to “your” and “its” and “there”. Apostrophes that shouldn’t be there are more annoying than missing apostrophes.
Yeah, my brain can't fathom how one cannot distinguish between "your" and "you're".
A large majority of everyday cruelty occurs because capitalism, a system based on exploitation, encourages it. Being greedy, cruel and self-centered is the most assured path to accruing fat stacks of cash. And once people take that path to get rich, they use their wealth to propagandize everyone else into thinking it’s actually moral to be solely concerned with yourself, which leads to all kinds of everyday cruelty.
There's always a reason, it's just not always a satisfying explanation
I mean I would genuinely argue no one is cruel for no reason. People can be cruel for no immediate reason, but people do not become cruel people without reason. Or at least that is my personsal philosophical view. I believe everyone wishes to be a good person. I also believe everyone sees themself as the good person in their own story, or at least sees themself as equally as bad as "everyone else." Shit happened to them, needs werent met in their lives, and they're worldview was shaped by that. Doesnt make it right or justified, but it does help me see from their perspective. And if I can see from their perspective, it is a hell of a lot easier to spot possible solutions. Whether or not those solutions are achievable for me is a different story. But at least knowing where the problems truly lie, and what are possible solutions, helps me cope with the cruelty in the world. But like I said, this is my philosophical outlook on the world so I cant say with certainty that I am right in anyway.
I accept that I can’t understand everything all the time, especially other people and there’s actually nothing autistic about that. However there ALWAYS a reason, and it almost always has nothing to do with me. No one does things “for no reason”. They weren’t cruel for no reason, hurt people hurt people, I don’t condone it but I’m also not going to try to reverse engineer someone else’s mind because it’s impossible, idk what trauma they’ve experienced or the context of their current lives and my time here is valuable, I’m not going to waste it on someone who’s been cruel to me.
I used to fall into this trap until I realized it’s a fools errand and my autistic brain thinks running fool’s errands is illogical.
One can be simply be cruel due to thoughtlessness. This is arguably still a reason, but there's no intent to do something harmful.
I don't think this excuses it, but there's also not really anything to "reverse engineer" in the thoughts behind it.
Man the broken grammar and spelling makes this annoying to read.
I see one mistake, otherwise reads fine to me
Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately described through ignorance.
Also, VPN's are like a condom for the internet. Quit blocking them.
The older the get the more I hate this quote.
Some people are just both.
I am brain
Thats just it though, a lot of the time there are reasons.
A lot of those reasons aren't immediately apparent, Some of those reasons might never be understood even by the person themselves.
I also want to make clear that a "reason" isn't always an excuse it's just the preceding experiences/events that lead up to an outcome.
Someone with a non--standard set of tools for reading context has a non-standard chance of seeing and/or understanding those reasons. Because the outward facing signs of that context are geared towards a typical form of communication that is commonly less accessible by the neurodivergent.
I say "non-standard chance of understanding" on purpose, because it's not always a case of better or worse and can vary over time, with skill acquisition and learning.
There are neurodivergent people who are very attuned to specific types of tells that wouldn't typically be seen. They might not understand the relevance or context, but they can notice a difference.
There are people who acquire a learned (as opposed to natural) form of this type of assessment of others.
That skill(or skills) can be it's own set of problems, but it's possible.
Nobody thinks themselves the bad guy. People have reasons that you don't understand or think are valid, but that doesn't make them not valid to them.
"My value as a person is tied who my ability to dominate others and this person looks like an easy target" is a reason why it happens. Doesn't mean you have to deploy mindfulness for the situation.
You can just dismiss the person if it makes it easier for you to comprehend. Alot of times those people are insecure because they were bullied, or beaten or because an authority figure told them they were worthless. And you're on the receiving end of that angst. Which is unfortunate, obviously you don't deserve it. But we need to build a new world. Our current world is divided.
Your attitude creates only enemies. In a divided world, the best path forward is solidarity. So sometimes that means forgiving someone their flaws.
I'm a Pakistani American Muslim. I've been subject to racism in airports and elsewhere. I've been called Al Quaeda in school. I've had guys tell girls I was dating that I was going to kidnap them. I have been subject to numerous "random" checks in airports. My fiance is a Hispanic Christian and some of her family told her they weren't going to attend our wedding just because they couldn't support her marrying me. I could have just dismissed these people as racist and forgotten about it. But instead I invited them over to my parents house for dinner. And they changed their tune and now they are planning to attend.
You wouldn't be wrong for dismissing people. But in order to build a better world, we need to try to connect with people. Sometimes it means forgiving people who wronged us.
I don't create enemies, if anything I fail to identify them in time to protect myself. I can't be a builder of the perfect world anymore because most of everyone's idea of a perfect world is one where uncomfortable, frustrating, friction-causing, people like myself are either gone or suffering to fulfill some end or another.
Sorry about your in-laws though. Fuck those people.
Hey man my vision of a better world includes you in it.
I'm sorry you feel rejected by the world. I love you tho.
Also my in laws got over it. They're on my team now.
Hitler thought he was the hero of his story. How valid it was to him doesn't matter at all.
Idk enough about Hitlers story, but I do think most current day Nazis feel pushed into this belief system by a crumbling economy that doesn't value them. They feel insecure about being able to raise a family by the same standard their parents raised them. That fear and insecurity is coopted by MAGA in order to focus their ire towards some other. Oftentimes they lack access to other worldviews, either by reading books(due to a crumbling education system) or by meeting people(living in a homogeneous town).
This world was created intentionally by the elites to prevent progressivism/socialism from taking root. Most of these Nazis could have been Bernie Bros if they had a better education system or if they had been raised in towns that had minorities around.
Is argue that some people absolutely understand they are doing "bad" things, even by their own criteria.
They choose to do them anyway, because the payoff is larger than the ethical and moral cost.
Hah, I just made a comment to similar effect on another of your posts before I saw this one.
I get it. Because I also don't get it.
Me my entire life!
Sadism.
Yeah.
Hard to get ones head around.
Ultimately it's a kind of stupidity or foolishness.
The psychology of narcissism (and "cluster b" / dark triad / dark tetrad, etc), should be a class availed and encouraged for all neurodivergent people. ... All people really. But especially us.
That isn't directly an autistic trait, is it? Isn't that just empathy, or a conscience?
Causality is still a thing so there is a reason but it's probably not going to be surface level or honestly worthwhile enough to understand. Some people are sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists, some were abused, some were never taught empathy and compassion or developed it themselves for whatever reason, the list goes on and on.
I'm feeling that RIGHT NOW!
My family is on vacation with my mother-in-law (MIL) and my nieces from out of the country. The original plan was for them to spend a week with us, and then stay with my MIL and her husband (J for JERK) in Florida to visit Disney World. MIL is the neices grandma
Well... MIL fell and BROKE BOTH of her ARMS!!
She cannot move her arms so requires 24/7 care which my partner is providing.
On a call MIL had with J, they're discussing how the new plans are for them all to stay up here with us longer and will only spend a few days in Florida. J says to send them down now and that he's fine to handle it (this guy has ZERO empathy).
MIL says "but they'll want to go shopping".
J: "How hard is that, I drop them off and then pick them back up when they say they're done. Oldest niece is 22, she can probably drive herself". She's from Europe and doesn't drive.
MIL: "What about Disney world?"
J: "Well that's not happening now."
MIL: "WHat?!"
J: "Well the deal was that you and I would see a presentation and we would get free tickets. Since you're not coming now, I have to cancel"
This guy is a multi-millionaire but is so beyond stingy he will STEAL FOOD from hotels that he's not even staying at.
And then when J tells MIL he's going to keep his plans to leave the state in a couple weeks, MIL starts begging J that he cancel his trip because MIL needs him to take care of her saying she's ALWAYS there for him, and J needs to be for her now. With tears in her eyes begging J, he says "Nope. I'm leaving the state like I planned to attend a GOLF OUTING and give a speech at a funeral for a friend".
Fucking vile bastard of a rancid maggot-riddled trash bag! I cannot fathom how someone can be so evil.
Multimillionaire, no empathy, story checks out. There are a lot of trauma backgrounds and cognitive disorders that create people with little to no empathy. Even more unfortunately if they become successful they will tend to view their condition as a benefit. It's usually not until they're old and alone where they begin to notice being disagreeable to others was a bad move.
I can’t see this as a blanket statement about how other’s actions are viewed. I can absolutely see people being cruel and a whole host of reasons why they might be, but I don’t understand why they don’t see that this is what they are doing and choose to not be that way.
I experienced the cruelty and bullying so much that I started to think every comment was.
I still think a lot were. But going past school kids now I am double the age on my way to work and still hearing some similar things, I think some of them might just be stupid.
A recent one was "your wheel is going round!"... I am on a bike. Wtf does that even mean? Like... That is how bikes work?
But I am in my early 30s now and the kid was probably 14. It doesn't feel quite like the same bullying I felt at school. There was definitely directed bullying too. Like being called gay, virgin, loser... But the dumber comments by other people, I don't know what to make of that now.