this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2026
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Both men and women are required to cover their hair in pools?
Yeah, you don't properly shower before a pool in France normaly. You change into your swiming gear, then shower (all gendered areas) with gear on, then pool. The swimming gear is suppose to keep the filth in, so only tight enough gear is allowed. In Sweden for example it is a bit opposite. Get naked, shower (gender separated areas), put on gear, pool. You have showered and washed your hair out, you are good to go.
So when kids pee in the pool all the pee stays inside their pants I'm sure...
I guess they have not solved that one.
Mandatory underwater heat camera's it is.
Until you’ve swum in a public pool that requires full body wash and shower, naked, you don’t realise the difference it makes to the chlorine amount required to keep the pool clean. Denmark has explicit instructions about where to wash, pre-soaped single use sponges that must be used, but hardly any chlorine in the pool water.
Humans are filthy, yo. I’d rather everyone cleans properly before I have share pool water with you.
Yeah, the issue here in France is that you absolutely can't trust people to do the right thing. A lot of them would skirt the rules and not wash properly.
And even then, I've been a competition swimmer and am from Denmark and our training slots were mostly in the evening after public access hours. The pools were filthy as fuck. And that's with the higher hygiene standards here. People are just filthy animals.
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In most public pools yes. Prevents hair from clogging filters. Or that is the official line.
From my very limited understanding, this comes down to the difference in how France treats religion. In the US we have a "freedom of religion" where people are supposed to be allowed to practice whatever religion they want. In France they have a "freedom from religion" where people's religion are not supposed to br demonstrated or encroach on others. So the mentality becomes you can go to the pool, but you can't wear that religious garment.
Congratulations on creating a secular theocracy, Quebec and France. Really valuable contribution.
Don't know about Quebec. But the "freedom from religion" French attitude is just being weaponised against Muslims at the moment. That Wauquiez is very close to far right.
In 2019 Quebec passed a law prohibiting public workers who are in positions of authority from wearing religious symbols. The law violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, particularly rights around freedom of religion and expression. But there's a fancy little mechanism called the "notwithstanding clause" that allows you to pass unconditional laws under some circumstances, which Quebec invoked and allowed the law to pass and withstand court challenges.
Seriously. Do they ban Catholic priests, monks, and nuns from wearing their religious attire? Or, let me guess, is there some broad exemption for "tradition" or some such bullshit?
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I mean, I would like to live in a world without religion. Sounds a whole lot better than our current Christo Fascism.
"I want secularism but I still want overbearing authority figures telling people what to wear" is the silliest version of secularism. I want secularism but not the good parts, basically.
Yeah, I agree with you there. This is a bit of a weird way to go about what they're trying to do.
I agree that these measures are a bit over the top, but I don't really get your points.
Which good parts of secularism do you think are missing here?
And "secular theocracy" is an oxymoron. Theocracies require the belief in at least one deity as a supreme ruling authority to guide the state, which is not the case at all here, completely the opposite even. So what makes you think that it's a "secular theocracy"?
Which good parts of secularism do you think are missing here?
The part where you have enough social liberty that you don't have government officials telling you how to dress.
And “secular theocracy” is an oxymoron. Theocracies require the belief in at least one deity as a supreme ruling authority to guide the state, which is not the case at all here, completely the opposite even. So what makes you think that it’s a “secular theocracy”?
Putting aside that 'secular theocracy' is wordplay making fun of their attempts to secularize in such a way that they take on features of a theocracy, such as dress codes. It's absolutely not an oxymoron. You could presumably have a Buddhist theocracy without any sort of belief in a supreme ruling deity.
The part where you have enough social liberty that you don't have government officials telling you how to dress.
That would be good indeed, but isn't really an aspect of secularism.
'secular theocracy' is wordplay making fun of their attempts to secularize in such a way that they take on features of a theocracy, such as dress codes.
Fair point.
You could presumably have a Buddhist theocracy without any sort of belief in a supreme ruling deity.
I think that wouldn't make it a theocracy, as it's more of a philosophy or way of life rather than a belief in a higher being that has a strict set of rules that a state could enforce. But I don't really know that much about buddhism, so I might be wrong.
That would be good indeed, but isn’t really an aspect of secularism.
I would say it's an aspect of secularism when done in a sane way.
I think that wouldn’t make it a theocracy, as it’s more of a philosophy or way of life rather than a belief in a higher being that has a strict set of rules that a state could enforce. But I don’t really know that much about buddhism, so I might be wrong.
Well, I would say that ultimately all theocracies are that. In my view there aren't any deities, so all theocracies which claim to base their legitimacy on a supreme being are, well, wrong. They are really enforcers of cultural norms that just happen to have a belief in a particular deity as one of those norms.
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If Iran said they were providing "freedom from Atheism" everyone would realize how incredibly stupid this sounds
Atheism isn't oppressing and brain washing people.
This, and it doesn't have any symbols or practices associated with it in the first place, so what would one even ban? Atheism isn't a religion, it's the lack thereof.
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These laws exist for colonialist purposes so you couldn't be more wrong.
I could be actually wrong instead of made up wrong.
Have you ever seen "atheist" and "sceptic" community and their talking heads?
That would be pretty stupid, agreed.
Umm so what atheist garmets would they be banning in this case exactly?
Mandatory hair coverings for women "to protect them against the weather outside."
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Except that's not how this work. What you described is specifically for representatives of the state (the french nation does not have a religion and it's representatives should not show theirs either) the citizens are free to do whatever they want and be as visibly religious as they want. Now, theright (including wauquiez) have a problem with Muslims having the same rights as the others but that's another story
Another W for secular society and Womens rights. Stay mad barbarians.
Yeah, forcing an effective ban on Muslim women swimming is a real victory. Wouldn't want them to think you had respect for them as people or basic human decency, now would you?
/s
Brother, trying to ban things you don't like doesn't work. It just makes the world a worse place to live. This isn't a win, it's a loss. You accept people as they are and make the world safer for everyone, not fucking ban a bathing suit because you disagree with a religion.
It's nothing to do with religion and everything to do with French pool hygiene. Atheist men are typically not allowed to wear baggy shorts for example, the only reason I own a few pairs of jammers.
No, it fucking isn't. The burkini is made out of the same fabrics as all other swimwear. The amount of fabric doesn't magically make it a hygiene issue. Stop spouting racist nonsense, my guy.
I hope you're not stupid enough to actually buy the dumbest excuse in world history to enforce Apartheid against Muslims.
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Why would "muslim" women be singled out here unless there were some other aspect that you are intentionally trying to link to being muslim. Is there some kind of inherent quality of muslim women that require them to wear a particular style of swim garment that non-muslim women don't wear?
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I'm still always floored that people vehemently defend a group of people who would be reviled white nationalist Nazis if they were white. The Venn diagram of mysogyny and far-right beliefs between most Muslim immigrants and literal Nazis is embarrassingly high. Have you taken a hard look at their belief system? Depending on where they're from there's a good chance more than half of them view women as property. You're defending nazis when you defend hard line Muslims. Even moderate Muslims are on the opposite end of the political spectrum from you.
The framing of this suggests that this is only against women, men also have swimwear codes in France. It's crazy
Looks like they have em in the USA too
Time to jail this repugnant dress code violator!
Come on now, they just wanna see Zohran without his clothes on! Now we can't blame them for that...
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Mandatory speedo?
Correct, shorts are also banned. The same city tried to change that to but got shot down there too.
Since state and religion are separated, public pools cannot make an exception based on religion. France had fairly strict hygienic rules for public swimming pools, which prohibit loose fitting garments.
I can't tell if you're joking or not
It's true. Some people wore surf shorts all day and didn't change. So... That's the current situation.
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