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But why do they even need to hack elections? The folks over at .ml told me that elections are pointless and the rich already controls everything!
Two parts of the same attack: Undermine election integrity while also pushing the idea that votes don't matter anyway. Maybe you're only partially successful with both approaches but a couple percentage points here and a couple there can tip previously well-balanced scales in the attacker's favor.
Its called hedging and they are known for it
I thought that was when you- oh, wait! Hedging, never mind.
TBH it feels like the rich have so many politicians in their pockets that now they focus on election meddling to show the policies of authoritarianism are validated by the voter base.
The folks over at .ml also said they have definitely never attended this particular Russian spy school.
I doubt they have. They are the poor saps who are falling for the propaganda created by the people who attended the spy school.
If the rich control the elections, doesn't that make them meaningless?
Obviously. There have and will continue to be elections like that all around the world. Giving the people the false impression that they made a choice is a good way to curb protests and riots.
And just to be clear, it's only a small part of all elections and I'm not saying what .ml says is fully true or that I agree with them on much.
Commie here with a point of view that Most such .ml comrades will agree with:
Of course Russia engages in propaganda, election manipulation, etc. The point we want to make is not that this does not happen or that this is somehow moral. The point we want to make is that, by constantly talking about Russia's election meddling, hacking etc. and constantly forgetting about the US's and Europe's much more intense meddling, we are framing the issue as an "anti-Russia" problem instead of an anticapitalist problem and giving leeway to the west to engage in such behaviors.
If we were true to reality, we WOULD discuss Russian propaganda and election meddling, but we would discuss TENFOLD more the western propaganda and election meddling, firslty because it's the one most pervasive where we live (most of us are westerners), and secondly because it's much, much stronger, by virtue of the EU and US having a lot more resources to put into this than Russia, a comparatively smaller and poorer country does.
This is the real reason why it is imperative for leftists to engage in so-called "whataboutism": because the media environment in which we move makes excessive focus on propaganda by declared enemy states and completely glosses over propaganda and meddling by our own or friendly states. By engaging in this "whataboutism", we force the perspective closer to reality, with a bit more equal representation of the sins of both sides.
Just wait until The Guardian learns about the CIA!
But whattabout...
Hey, you want to argue the world should be treating the US as a pariah state as well, I have no objection.
The UK doesn't quite do that, though, do they? How's that war in Iran going?
And how much is the Russian interference having on US action? Ignoring that for the obvious baddy is exactly what this interference is meant to do. You're essentially helping them do their job.
Can you rephrase that in any way that makes sense?
Do you understand how overrepresentation of an issue on media (including social media) is a form of propaganda? The media spectrum being dominated by pro-US and anti-Russia stations means that we get 10 times the focus on one vs the other.
If there were appropriately weighted representation of such news in Lemmy, commies like me wouldn't need to remind everyone constantly that the US is doing even worse, but as things stand, in order to be fair to reality it is necessary to engage in whataboutism.
If youre a communist and youre backing Russia, youre doing it wrong.
Now if you're a soviet apologist on the other hand...
There is also the evidence that this Russian interference is directly impacting how US is being run. Does that not factor into your value judgment?
No one can, in good conscience, say that the US isnt having a significant negative impact on world stability... but obviously it's not happening in a vacuum.
Where in my comment did I back Russia?
There is also the evidence that this Russian interference is directly impacting how US is being run.
This is mostly a conspiracy theory, though, the whole "agent krasnov" etc etc. If there is overwhelming evidence of systematic funding of political parties, campaigns and propaganda that's by Israel, not by Russia. "The american government is run by Putin" is about as well documented as "the Jews run the world", that is, none at all.
Blaming the US behavior on Russia, as if the US didn't constantly go to war in the middle East, as if the Biden administration hadn't funded the most extreme phase of the ongoing genocide in Gaza, is bullshit to excuse the US and blame "le evil country"
Nothing I've said in this comment is a commandment of the Russian government, they're proto-fascist, racist, queerphobe scum. Thay doesn't mean they run the world.
Where in my comment did I back Russia?
You're right, you didn't explicitly back them.
It doesn't have to be run by the Russian government to be affected by it. This article is about election meddling, not deep state conspiracy stuff. Do you deny that meddling? That it has had a serious impact on the US and a wide array of other countries?
Intentional destabilization while not mucking about with actually controlling it is often times even worse, especially when it comes to as influential country as the US.
That doesn't mean they have no culpability... but as I said, it's not a vacuum. There's always more than one factor, and ignoring any in favor of only one is intentional ignorance of the worst kind.
Do you deny that meddling? That it has had a serious impact on the US?
Yes! I explicitly said that it's mostly a conspiracy theory, backed by no serious evidence.
@Riverside @world Do you also think election meddling by Russia in Ukraine, Georgia, Hungary, and other central European states is a conspiracy theory?
No, there is substantial evidence for Russian meddling in such countries' elections. Do you think there's election meddling by the EU in said countries?
Putin was probably swapping notes and tactics with the old orange pedophile.