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336

Trump says migrants drive violent crime in Illinois. But ICE can’t find many violent criminals. (www.msnbc.com)

submitted 7 months ago by gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

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[–] comrade_twisty@feddit.org 73 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

That’s cause immigrants are generally law abiding residents by nature. When I was in the US on a visa I was oftentimes the only one who did not drink and drive or smoke pot and drive at parties, every fucking American kid did not give a shit about the laws and would even carry a gun while doing stupid stuff like that (in AZ).

I was too fucking scared to even get a speeding ticket or get into trouble for some other minor digression just because a power hungry cop doesn’t like my people. So I always followed every rule to the fucking t.

It’s generally well established that immigrants are the most law abiding population in almost every country. The only people who dispute this are fucking racists who make up their own statistics.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 3 points 7 months ago

also even if they are illegal, they are mostly going to be hiding from plain sight, so it would not be possible to find them all anyways. thats why they target blue areas, where alot of legal immigrants go.

[+] circuscritic@lemmy.ca -28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

This is the other side of migrant propaganda, the the one where they are paragons of virtue and more law-abiding than everyone else, but it's false.

They are people, and their crime rates, like with everyone else, are most closely aligned to the demographic's poverty rates, not their immigration status.

Migrants don't magically escape the correlation between income levels and crime. But they are significantly less likely to report crimes, for obvious and understandable reasons, which does bring the reported crime rates in their communities down.

And I can match your anecdotal stories with my own that counter your anecdotal experiences, including living in Arizona during the SB 1070 era. But just like your stories, they're anecdotal.

So instead, here's a 2019 NIH Study:

Silence Speaks: The Relationship between Immigration and the Underreporting of Crime

[–] dondelelcaro@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago (1 children)

First off, that's not an NIH study. It's a paper by researchers at a university that happens to have been uploaded to pubmed Central for open access. The NIH hosts pubmed.

Secondly, it's about crime reporting rates by national origin, not crime commission rates by national origin. So not responsive to the original comment.

[–] comrade_twisty@feddit.org 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You’re mixing up completely different things! Not sure if you’re even trying to make an argument in good faith or if you’re trying to derail the conversation.

If law enforcement is anti-immigrant and racist, of course will immigrants be less likely to report crime. They are scared to interact with law enforcement! What goes especially unreported in those communities is crime against immigrants! The problem is in the system, the immigrants are not the problem!

[+] circuscritic@lemmy.ca -12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

That study long predates the current fascist crackdown on migrants.

I'm not making any argument, I'm simply correcting your misinformation with relevant scientific studies from the NIH.

I understand why that message is counter to the popular narrative on the left, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, again, see the study.

I also understand that it's not a popular thing to bring up right now because of what's going on, but when you drill down into it, all I'm saying is that migrants are people like everyone else. They aren't inherently worse then natural born citizens, but they aren't better either, they're just people.

And like everyone else, migrant crime rates are most closely aligned to poverty rates, but crime rates are also dependent upon crimes being reported, and there are legitimate and understandable reasons why crimes in those communities go under reported.

[–] dublet@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So instead, here’s a 2019 NIH Study: [...]

That study long predates the current fascist crackdown on migrants.

I’m not making any argument, I’m simply correcting your misinformation with relevant scientific studies from the NIH.

You think migrants (and minority groups) being afraid to interact with law enforcement started after 2019?

[–] garretble@lemmy.world 31 points 7 months ago

Can’t find any violent criminals besides themselves, of course.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago (3 children)

They're too chicken shit to go after actual criminals, because they'll fight back...

Like, obviously not all immigrants are violent criminals, but it's also true that some immigrants are violent criminals. Just like literally every demographic.

If Trump's admin just cares about total numbers, they're going to keep going after the easiest targets, even if they're in the country legally.

[–] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

It’s not about violent criminals. It’s about white supremacy. It’s about demographic change. This is ethnic cleansing.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

Obviously...

Every innocent brown person they deatin, increases the percentage that are violent criminals and out of the streets.

They don't want to solve crime, they want to convince people crime is bad so that they support the total removal of everyone brown.

[–] koetje78@feddit.nl 1 points 7 months ago

It's about making the US accustomed to state violence on the streets. Because that allows going further. They do not give a shit about crime or ethnics. Only power and expanding it through suppression. Doing this to "illegals" first is just a way to not make enough people resist.

Just like actual Chicago crime figures are entirely irrelevant. Facts are not driving this nor are relevant to a huge portion of the population. The question is about being able to deploy the army where Trump wants and who can resist that. To figure out how strong his regime is. So far, the limit is far from reached.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago

Yup. That's the reason they're targeting blue cities. If they tried raiding brown citizens in, say, Texas, they'd get shot.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If they were serious about crime, they'd have gone into Watts and Compton in Los Angeles, or Washington Park/any of the sketchy south side neighborhoods in Chicago.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I was in Compton a couple years ago, and it was great. Didn't go into Watts or any of the PJs though.

I used to make it a point in my younger days to walk around "rough" areas, Compton felt like a suburb compared to something like Chicago or NYC.

Most of those "high crime areas" are because of drug dealing and gangs trying to control turf and the violence that comes with that When that stuff is going on, fucking with a random just isn't worth the police attention it might bring.

In my experience the most dangerous areas are almost always 10-15 minutes away from a "rough" area. It's far enough away from the action that random crime won't negatively effect the drug trade. But close enough drug users are looking for stuff to steal to feed their addiction.

When I was skateboarding in highschool, we used to go into the city and intentionally pick skate spots within eyeshot of a manned corner. It meant cops weren't likely to come thru the area, and no locals would start anything like a mugging/jacking because that might bring cops into the area and get the dealers pissed at them for interrupting business.

On the other hand, if we ever saw cops we were out of any area immediately. Even if we weren't doing anything wrong, there's just no telling when a cop would decide to fuck with someone, even planting drugs or making up random bullshit

[–] bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I definitely depends on where in Compton for sure. I worked in an industrial area off Del Amp years ago and it was fine, but I remember getting lost after partying at USC one night and it was pretty sketchy.

My point was that if ICE were serious, they'd be venturing into these high crime areas, not terrorizing families. But then they'd be met with armed resistance.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

If they were serious they'd be working to gain rhe trust of locals who would tell them where the trouble is if not who makes it

[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago

That's because Trump lies about there being a crime epidemic to send in the military.

Take special notice on how the Trump administration never ever ever provides proof or evidence or data of any of these claims. Just "this blue city is a crime infested hellhole" and then they move straight to rubber stamping the jack boot thugs against the wishes of the local governments.

If these military deployments actually had a measurable effect on crime rates in cities, you know for a fact that Republican snakes would be blasting those stats on every airwave.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

But ICE can't find many violent criminals

Maybe they should look in the mirror.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If they can't find violent criminals in Chicago, then they are looking in the wrong areas. The vast majority of Chicago is completely safe and pretty awesome. But let's not pretend there aren't violent parts of the city, it's just that those dangerous areas don't correlate to areas with high rates of undocumented immigrants.

[–] Joeffect@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

It's almost if the criminals are the ones that are legal citizens and the people who are here illegally for the most part try really fucking hard not to mess that shit up?

Go figure...

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 7 months ago

guess where all the undocument ones are, in red states, rural areas, and things like meat plants.

[–] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Trump lies every time his mouth is open or his thumbs are moving while he posts from the shitter

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Probably because most criminals are actually white?

Edit: Yep, crime statistic Illinois 2019: 69% whites.