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Which insanity do you mean?
That it happened? That we don't remember it? That we don't analyse our situation? That I have mentioned it? Something else?
You mentioning it.
What does it have to do with Russian influence within the EU?
It means that the story is more complex. If we cared about foreign influence we would know to which extend there still is American influence. Without asking that question we can't judge if Orban's relation to Russia is out of the ordinary.
We also don't know if our judgement of Russia is rooted in manipulation. America has a motive to split us from Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
Fuck off, tankie. You know damn well that this community does not like american influence the same way it does not like russian influence. So take your dumb whataboutism and get out.
Then think it through. People hate Russia so much that they don't recognize how they are manipulated. Please, give it a thought.
I thought it through. I really don't like authoritative regimes that imprison and torture political opponents, protestors and journalists. I don't like regimes that oppress minorities and crack down on human and civil rights. I don't like nations that invade other countries, comit genocide and other warcrimes. And I don't like it when nations try and meddle with the democratic processes and societal discourse of independent states.
That's why I like neither Russia nor the USA (and a bunch of other countries like China) and want them to be told to fuck off. Same is true for thise who support their efforts, like you.
How do you want to achieve that? It's essentially the gas situation. We have cut off Russia and are now forced to buy American gas.
We don't treat Russia and the US equally, to the advantage of the US.
China has shown how to balance powers. They were supported by the US to keep their distance from Russia. We do the opposite. We fight Russia and are forced to support the US.
Ever heard of that nice thing called "renewables"? You know, electrification powered by electricity gained from solar and wind? Pretty effective stuff to become independent.
Minister Reiche shows that the US have no intention of letting the EU break free from the energy dependency.
For the forseeable future we will be dependent on the US and the US will leverage that dependency to have enough new ones for the time when there is enough renewable power.
China and the US must compete for the goodwill of Europe for Europe to be independent. However, the war with Russia binds us to the US.
What I don't understand is that people don't draw a connection between the American support for NGOs in Ukraine, the protests and new government, the Russian reaction and the inevitable political reality for Europe.
The US invested $5 billion in NGOs and Europe buys weapons for hundreds of billions and the EU cannot threaten to switch to China.
That looks like a successful plan to me.
I have no idea what tinfoil shit you're talking about. What do Reiche, China and Ukraine have to do with the fact that neither Russia nor the US are very popular in this community?
They determine if we stay dependent on the US.
I don't understand what popularity has to do with it.
We have plenty of reason to hate Russia.
And it does not prevent us from hating on other imperialist war machines.
All of them can fuck right off.
Hating the US equally doesn't help to understand the manipulations. Understanding comes from trying to find their reasons for their actions.
@plyth @Honytawk
Trump has only one reason for all his actions & that is the $$ value in his portfolios.
But does he make the decisions? Right now, the closing of the strait of Hormus is so counter-intuitive that there must be a bigger consensus or Trump would be impeached.
Still citing the book you haven't read? Tell us again, what comes before the one sentence you always carefully select?
Well, at least my judgement of Russia is rooted in their own actions, atrocities and crimes they do since 4+ years in Ukraine. It is you trying to manipulate to whitewash them from it.
The full quote:
"should be benign and visionary" is cruel cynicism when you remember what happened under his watch and afterwards.
Without the NGO investments, the takeover of the intelligence service and the extend of civilian casualities in other wars you see 4 years of Russian war crimes. You miss what is actually happening.
Are you sure? Let's check:
Has Russia invaded Ukraine?
Is this a war of aggression?
Is Russia committing war crimes in this war?
Should Russia fully retreat from Ukrainian territory according to the international borders of 1994?
That's if you only look at Russia and Ukraine. The relations between the US and Europe have changed to the advantage of the US.
Why are you dodging the questions?
I agree with your judgement. I just think that without looking at the context you miss the big picture and draw the wrong conclusions about how to get or maintain a free Europe.
I'd like you to answer the questions please.
I have. How much agreement do you need?
You have "answered" one. There were four:
Too bad that judgement doesn't have a plural form. You may be splitting hair, I don't. As far as I can agree without further context I agree with all four of your statements.
These aren't statements but questions. These are answered with either a "yes" or a "no".
Don't pull my leg. Those are not open questions but essentially statements. Can you only take things at face value? Of course not, you are not stupid.
Your questions don't change that the war keeps Russia and the EU at a distance. The interesting question for the EU is if that distance was created intentionally.
Those are questions to which you have either a "yes" or "no" answer.
I'd like to hear them. Nothing else.
Yes yes yes yes
That what happened? That USA wanted cooperation back then? That's a heck of a lot better than what they do today.
De Gaulle's judgement was:
It could be that it has been like today since the beginning of the EU. It was just never obvious. However statesmen like de Gaulle knew it.
France owed their freedom from the Nazis to USA and allies as much as the rest of Europe did. It is not a bad thing to have friends.
And yes Western Europe and USA have been very good friends for decades, that does nor mean European countries were vassals of USA.
But USA was by far the bigger economy, so they had and still have a lot of power, just like Germany was by far the biggest economy in the EEC, and had a lot of political power there because of it.
But the cooperation between the countries meant that all countries had a say, instead of things just being dictated by the strongest.
When USA threatened to invade Greenland it became very obvious that the European countries are from being vassals of USA, with several countries delivering military support to Denmark with actual troops to defend Greenland, and many more declaring their support, and EU declaring that EU would use the "bazooka" against USA if they invaded Greenland.
The Bazooka being by far the strongest measures ever used would be used against USA, for instance selling US bonds, which would absolutely upset the entire American economy.
This "Bazooka" is an anti coercion system EU developed to protect against China, but instead it turned out we needed it against USA. So EU was absolutely prepared against USA, that is the opposite of being a vassal state.
Why do you think de Gaulle had the opinion?
I think selling US bonds is not part of the Bazooka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument. It would still be a possible option for the EU to react. But it also reveals that the EU kept huge anounts of bonds while the bonds were devaluating.
Unspent, the bonds are essentially a tax, allowing the US to invest the money into weapons and research. That can be seen as shared responsibilities but it can also be a hint that the dependency is mostly to the benefit of the US.
I think because after WW2 he was allergic to any kind dependency on anyone. If I remember correctly De Gaulle also pulled France out of NATO, and France developed their own nukes under him and started their own space program.
De Gaulle was hell bent on making France independent and a dominant power in Europe.
Still he favored cooperation, and was part in forming the EEC, and France was also a NATO ally.
France received about 20% of the total Marshall aid provided by USA, did that make France a vassal to USA? No of course it didn't. I just think de Gaulle was hurt that France failed completely against the German invasion, much like Putin is hurt about the Soviet Union failed. De Gaulle wanted France to rise to its former level of prestige and international respect. And maybe he thought that Germany working closely with UK and USA, would mean that France would take a back seat?
When Germany started WW2, France was seen as nearly impossible for Germany to take, France was the shield that should prevent Germany from controlling Europe. That shield failed miserably.
France used to be considered a global power, after WW2 France was diminished to just a significant European power.
I think you may be right that the bonds are not an original part of the Bazooka, they were an addition.
I suspect the bonds owned by EU countries are placed as part of a normal economic spread of funds. I am not aware they should have been bought for the purpose of pressuring USA.
I have zero worries that the EU central bank is managed responsibly, it's being monitored by all Euro countries which is about 20 countries, so I doubt they would get away with anything that doesn't serve the Euro countries.
But that was not due to WW2. Like Britain, they kept their colonies. The US helped to end the colonial rule of both of them afterwards.
They inevitably come from a trade surplus. Why would Europe keep the bonds and not buy farmland and companies? Apple and Google could be European companies, or Chinese, who have the same trade surplus problem.
Another topic, but that structure will kill the Euro because the countries that need a weak currency have the majority.