this post was submitted on 12 May 2025
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I like this as a thought experiment: Lemmy, at what point does someone stop being nice? And is there a difference between acting or being nice?
Raymond is probably "nice" to the fellow white dude, polite and not physically aggressive.
Raymond is not nice to society.
Could even be nice to the marginalized they know and deem "one of the good ones" but still vote violence against them and be racist pieces of shit.
I know people in this exact scenario, in fact.
Of the people I've encountered this is the more realistic portrayal of a racist. Granted, I'm white so have a hard time detecting when other whites are racist, but when they are it's always in the more subtle ways of upholding and defending toxic hierarchies.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who will outwardly rant and rave, but I feel like those people lack the social power to be a real threat (though their lack the self control might make them a more immediate physical threat) .
I know people like this. They're "nic". But what that means is they put everyone they know into "one of the good ones" box. So they're polite to all people they know, basically... It's interesting and horrifying to see tbh
With enough self reflection, that can turn around into changing their opinion at a systemic level. Sometimes all it takes is few comments from someone they trust, and some time to process.
That's an interesting point. People can be nice to certain groups of people I guess. Maybe no one can be nice to everyone.
I know that probably you didn't mean it that way, but it sounds as though you're excusing Raymond.
Nothing new here, who doesn't know someone who is very pleasant on the surface and a complete sociopath underneath?
Itβs like when people romanticise the old London gangsters and say they were polite and always looked after their mother. That still doesnβt make up for a lifetime of criminal intimidation, physical assault and murder.
If someoneβs polite but just waiting for a local chapter of blackshirts to form theyβre not nice people.
Imo nice and kind are separate qualities, mutually exclusive. Raymond is unkind towards women, but he may have a nice demeanor. Lots of evil people can be nice around others in chit chat, but cruel in their actions and beliefs.
Never heard the term gentleman thief, that's fun. I had Southern Hospitality in mind. A notorious stereotype is that southerners are nice but mean, and northerners are kind but rude.
This is an interesting question. Given a sufficiently functional environment "Raymond" may be functionally harmless as its impossible to for him to have anything crazy he wants. In a functional enough one he wont even admit the crazy shit he believes because it would see him excluded and possibly fired.
Do we then consider him eccentric instead of a POS? Is a sex murder a "nice" if he's behind bars and we only talk to him about normal stuff and forget that he would gladly rape and murder you without the bars?
At some point we need to understand that someone who would take away your rights and potentially kill you if you didn't roll over and accept his dominion isn't "nice" just because he exists in an environment where he isn't in a position to work his will.
Good point. There's plenty of examples (fictional or not) where 'nice' people were driven to 'not nice' things and vice versa. The fact we need laws indicate that maybe mostly people are maybe not nice? Since if we'd be considerate we wouldn't need those laws (in general)? It seems most people seem to think 'being nice' is doing things the majority of people deem as a good thing to do.
Caleb!
"Niceness" is largely performative. It's based on words and little else. Being "nice" is based on how someone views themself.
Kindness, on the other hand, is rooted in an intrinsic belief that is shown through action. It extends beyond the individual and considers how their actions relate to society as a whole.
You can paint a layer of "nice" over an absolute garbage core personality. It doesn't really mean anything. These days, "nice" can be used to describe a baseline level of standard civility that allows you to function in society. It says nothing about what kind of person you are.
You can believe really stupid shit, but still be a nice person, so that question probably has a grey zone that would be hard to qualify, withe several "dealbreakers" in there. Like, you can't be a nice person if you want to own slaves.
And who decides what the "dealbreakers" are? The majority of society? God? Some king? Santa Claus?