I want my turtle neck back.
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Wrong dude. That was Abraham in Genesis.
If Jesus is God and God told Abraham then i guess it's technically the right dude.
only jesus said there is a new covenant with him, which nearly all denominations interpret to mean the rite of circumcision is a thing of the past
Supposedly, Jesus was the new covenant. All these sunworshiping cults can't get along. But yet they think they're the ones that should be in charge. They're all a bunch of idolaters.
It's fucking crazy bro my parents were believers but weren't actually subscribed to any traditional religion and them mfers still trimmed my shit
Yeah you've got to wonder if that extra bit they trimmed off would be nicer to have there or not. But I guess the mutilated pecker is all I'll ever know so I guess its fine?
So there is that story in Genesis where the sons of Jacob have an army of 318 men circumcised so they could follow their religion.
Just think they probably put then into a pile, a small little mountain of foreskins.
They made them into some wallets
My wallet is really at the end of its life cycle and this comment made me consider
You know how you can collect rubber bands over time, wrapping them around each other, and eventually you have a great big ball on your desk to play with?
Somewhere in heaven, God is sitting on top of a huge pile of foreskins like Smaug.
You know, I have a personal theory that this particular law was established as a measure of genital hygiene, since without the foreskin dirt does not accumulate on the glans; but over the years it was distorted until it became a divine mandate that is just for the sake of it.
The vast majority of the Bible was simply guidelines to keep people healthy and happy. All this "the skin of the pig is unclean" stuff? They hadn't figured out germs yet. No sex until marriage? No contraceptives, so don't create in cared for children. I won't waste my time on it but, when examined in context, this is the vast majority, if not the entirety of the bible: lessons on how to be safe and happy relative the time, made digestable and relevant to the common person.
Sucks they had to get there via fear of imaginary, post-life pain, and it sucks twice as hard that they've neglected to rationalize that part as the rest of the belief structure has modernized.
When people get afraid they get superstitious. And then they walk into the wolf's arms.
One of my favorite examples of this: Leviticus 11:13-19
"These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe, and the bat."
Most of these are either scavengers, or eat rodents which carry diseases that are awful to humans. The societies that ate them didn't tend to last long.
Circumcision of children should be highly illegal. Any health practitioner doing the procedure should be criminally liable for assault and malpractice.
I think religiously mandated circumcision is as dumb as the next guy does but c'mon now... there are legitimate reasons to do it and getting it done does not have that terrible health outcomes for the kid compared to FGM. I think society as a whole should start to think of it as a bygone practice, but putting doctors on pikes over it is extreme.
They are clearly not talking about the legitimate, medically necessary cases
not really... they said any. they didn't give any indication they might have an exception to that. sounds like they're talking about a blanket ban.
I would say that any... if the people live in a group or a society that is religion-based, and that religion requires it, then I am not against infant circumcision.
Basically, if you were born to Jewish parents living in Israel or Palestine or born to Muslim parents living in a Muslim-run country, then yes, participate in the culture that you were born in.
But, like in America, where every single person decides their own faith for themselves and only the most culty stay in this same religion that their parents were in, infant bodily autonomy outside of life-saving procedures should be the rule.
It seems to happen less often in Europe, but wouldn't hurt to add that as a rule there, too.
At least wait until the kid is 13 years old as a minimum.
Jesus was in fact the one to say "yeah all this old rules don't matter, just focus on these two: don't be a dick and don't be a fucking dick, god damn"
And that is why they crucified him, The Old Testament Repeatedly says "Be a dick against gays, infidels and non-virgin women who are not your wife. And whoever comes to say otherwise, be the most absolute dick against him".
But even the new testament says to fear god, why would a all loving god want us to fear it? The abrahamic god is not all loving at all
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17
Casual reminder that many religious rules were just basic Hygiene practices from prehistoric times which were later absorbed into the local beliefs.
The whole “hygiene” and circumcision is a myth and a lie. Your foreskin has no bearing on your ability to wash your dick
The whole “hygiene” and circumcision is a myth and a lie.
It's not like there microbiology science existed thousands of years ago. It may have been a hygiene practice because people thought it was helpful. Bloodletting is BS as well and people thought it helped drain the body's poisons.
Bloodletting is therapeutic... for some very specific conditions. For example, hemochromatosis, where the body has too much iron, and there has been some preliminary study that blood donations are a way to reduce the amount of PFAS in blood.
But everyone has PFAS in their blood; not every male has (beyond normal) phimosis.
From the context it's 100% clear that I meant the medieval practice, before modern science.
God hates the tips of little baby dicks
You can tell when a tradition was set in by the hidden undertone it allowed to play for it. "Time for your circumcision... Whoops! Guess you are my eunuch surrogate now, totally didn't mean to eliminate the competition / your genes from my gene pool of surrogates!" Yeah, probably looking too much into it, it's not like it's a practice associated with a culture heavily associated with a god's chosen master race ideology or anything. Totes just a coincidence that it was fabulously sported by the slave loving Egyptians and cultures famous for their obsession with slave land owners of the times as a "rite of passage". ^/actualshitcomment^
Tbf Jesus didn't start this shit.
Actually there was a huge debate among early Christians whether circumcision was still required because Jesus never spoke on the issue (or if he did, there was no verifiable record of it).
To crudely summarize:
The earliest Christians were primarily Jews, so they were already circumcized as required by Judaism so it was a non-issue. However unlike Judaism where you're almost always born into the religion, Christianity actively encourages adult conversion, so as more non-Jews (e.g. Greeks) began to identify as Christians, the circumcision issue became a conundrum. Some felt Christianity was a branch of Judaism and as such Jewish practices like circumcision were still required, whereas others objected because they saw Christianity as a new approach to Judaism, or even as a separate religion altogether (circumcision specifically was hotly debated due to such issues as adult circumcision being more, shall we say, unappealing than infant circumcision, plus getting circumcized would "out" non-Jews in nude spaces like bath houses, which was at best awkward and at worst deadly).
The earliest followers of Jesus thought Jesus was going to return in their lifetimes, so these types of issues were not discussed (or at least not resolved) by the original founders and proselytizers (researchers have determined the Gospels weren't even composed until well after everyone involved was dead), but as generations passed it became clear that the Second Coming actually may not happen anytime soon, so practical issues of "how to establish a new religion (is it even a new religion or just a Jewish sect???)" turned into gigantic internal debates for the community. That's what much of the New Testament is: letters back and forth trying to interpret the words of Jesus to resolve doctrinal conflict. In other words, the New Testament is basically four different versions of the story of Jesus (Mark, Matthew and Luke which were based on Mark and a lost "Gospel X", and John), followed by a curated back-and-forth commentary section debating issues of the day such as circumcision and women's role in the church, and controversially capped off by the (theorized) hallucinations of a hermit tripping balls off donated moldy bread.
The history of the New Testament (how it was written and later compiled, early texts that were lost or discarded, and all the doctrinal conflicts that boiled over into variously incidents of geopolitical chaos) is fascinating and seriously worth exploring.
That's fascinating. Can you recommend any books on the subject? The easier to read the better!
I don't know if I'd call it "easy" reading, but this is a well-regarded college textbook that's popular in "Christianity 101" religion classes (so at least it's entry-level and doesn't assume prior knowledge on the topic):
For something much lighter, Extra Credits did a video series on early Christian schisms that mentions the circumcision debate:
I'm far from a religious scholar (just someone who enjoys history from time to time), so I'd be curious if other folks have additional recommendations.
Thou shall try really really really hard not to kill anyone, unless they pray to a different invisible made up man in the sky to the one you do.