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Party for Socialism and Liberation: "I plan to continue to express absolutely no urgency about the idea of keeping Republicans out of power. The most important party to criticize is and always has been the Democrats. It's super important not to vote for Democrats. That's the key thing. It's the only way to real forward progress."
The KDP did the exact same thing in Germany in 1932. Most of them were executed in the years following the election.
Thread Topic: "Fascists attack leftist organization."
@PhilipTheBucket: "The problem with the left is leftist infighting. I'm a leftist, and let's instead make this thread about how terrible this leftist organization is!"
Take a look at https://pslweb.org/. There's nothing about the protests on Saturday, it doesn't seem to have been updated since the election.
Watch the video. "A system that presents two options, but for all intents and purposes, represents a single billionaire agenda." "I'm tired of hearing this is the biggest election in your lifetime. The reality is, over time, it doesn't matter."
I turned it off when they got upset about us sending aid to Ukraine. It's a little wild and incongruous that they found time to fit that in there, in the same breath as aid to Israel.
Now that millions of people are in the streets and there might be some momentum for lasting change (as well as a terrifying outcome if the resistance isn't strong enough.)... nothing. Now that they fucked up the election, the page hasn't been updated, they don't care anymore. They're not working on building anything non-electoral now that that's getting wildly popular. All their focus was (and still is, apparently), on the election.
They aren't leftists. I feel fine attacking them. Honestly? If there are some confused leftists in their ranks, who unlike the leadership are interested in protests and are getting attacked as a result, then absolutely, let's defend them. That goes without saying. But the PSL doesn't have any sympathy from me. I'm not happy about the leadership being in any crosshairs because of the predictable disaster they helped to cause, no one deserves to get shot because they advocated for something good. But, that was part of the point about rallying against Trump, was that hopefully no one would have to get shot. If they realize it's a big deal now and start fighting, then they should update the web site to talk about that, instead of the election.
PSL is not even a real political party. They do not get anyone elected and they have rarely ever even had candidates. They are much too concerned about some strange sort of ideological purity.
It is a weird club for people who enjoy having protests to go to on the regular. Poorly attended protests usually, but they do get to talk amongst themselves about how much better things will be after a revolution they take no effective steps toward fomenting.
I suspect the imagine they are in the vanguard of something, but it has been over 80 years since they were founded.
Poseurs, Simps and Losers.
I have seen them at protests, and they do seem organized and they definitely can yell. What the fuck, I'll take it. I feel like it's probably mostly the central leadership that's somehow been corrupted into trying to throw elections to the Republicans and getting upset about us sending aid to Ukraine.
I don't know if the person on the microphone I saw spend most of their speech yelling about Democrats (literally more than 50%) was from the PSL, but I don't know that they were. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe not, fuck it, come along with us, you can do your thing and I can do mine, sounds good.
I’m fine with their platform and I do go to their events now and then, so any shade I throw is dappled with some sunshine.
My main beef is they call themselves a ‘party’ and that means getting candidates elected. If that isn’t your goal, you aren’t a political party.
My feeling has been that they waste the energy of a lot of early adopters and teach them means of political engagement that render them ineffective.
"leftist" as if its such a thing in the US, at most is center right.
PSL sucks but come on is this really the most important take from this situation? Fascist attacks on freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are a threat to everyone, even if you don’t like who they’re targeting.
I think the comparison to Germany is apt, but the solidarity needed to resist this needs to start by setting aside some of these differences for now.
You and Five aren't 100% wrong, I do take the point that the infighting is a waste of energy. I was all set to apologize and acknowledge, and then I looked at the PSL's web site and it's all still talking about the election, they don't give a shit about progress now that it doesn't involve an election with a Democrat in it, they literally can't even be bothered to take down the video yelling about the election that happened a lifetime ago in a different type of country. Literally the day the election happened, they stopped caring, I guess.
I mean like I say, I do get it. I just felt embittered. Now that I've got it out of my system for a second, yes, we can all rally together and fight this bullshit whether or not the PSL is aware of its role in this catastrophe or interested in self-preservation in future elections going forward.
McCarthyism is back baybee.
Or maybe the more accurate reality is that it never left, it was just hibernating.
They should tell him to go fuck himself with a stick.
What I'd like to know is how normal is it for such a letter to be written?
I don't like Josh Hawley and I agree with Newsom that Trump made things worse.
However, these specific protests are violent; I can't look at a picture of a flaming police or Waymo car and say that's not violent. So if organizations are genuinely related to that activity ... is that something that they'd normally be immune to? Is there precedent?
Like, flipping the script, if the Proud Boys collected money and then showed up in a town and trashed the place, would Proud Boys leadership be held accountable (under normal circumstances)? That's kind of what happened with Jan 6th until Trump pardoned them (which I also don't agree with).
You've been led to believe this by a media narrative. The protests are not violent. The policing is violent, but the protests are not.
I mean I don't think it's fair to call this a "media narrative" ... https://youtu.be/WW2JLfUwTjI
I have read the accounts that it's only immediately around a particular building that things are a mess, it's not some wide spread apocalypse and I get that ... but there's definitely a certain level of violence and destruction.
And that "certain level" is very low. The media narrative is trying to make it seem much higher than it is. They largely omit the speeches, the chanting, the dancing, and the standing around. They minimize the extraordinarily violent response.
You're completely missing my point regardless and making it something that it isn't.
I couldn't possibly care less about "the media."
How far are we from normal? What's the precedent for this?
That stuff matters. But according to some random other person in this thread "I'm an idiot for asking because I'm brainwashed by the media."
NO. I want to know HOW NORMAL IS THIS and instead we're having this other honestly very annoying conversation debating whether or not any violence occurred or if it was "enough" violence or the "right kind" of violence.
So yeah, thank you very not much for derailing my question.
Even if there was a certain level of violence occurring and it was not caused by the completely disproportional response of the LAPD, would that make the protest invalid? Because that's what they are trying to make you think. That want it to be impossible to protest, which we are supposed to have a right to do in this country.
It doesn't matter. That's not what I brought this up to talk about. Honestly this whole sub thread is just derailing.
Screw the media, how normal is this? Has this happened before? Does anyone know?
Like yeah, Hawley sucks but are we being hypocritical or is this genuinely like an "OMG this is bad and something that is really really out of the ordinary behavior." It's honestly hard to tell with this stuff because EVERYTHING is the end of the world.
I care much less about the protest or the particular organization and a lot more about the novelty of a United States senator pressuring an organization of any kind as retaliation for its "vague support."
It does matter. It's the only thing that matters. The entire point is demonizing protests so they can sick their jackbooted thugs on them.
This isn't happening in a vacuum.
Another idiot that doesn't bother to research what is actually going on and relying on their goon media to fill them in.
Don't you get it, they're "just asking questions"?
Please ignore the fact that they have doubled and tripled down by arguing with everyone that actually answered them.
I've seen exactly 1 Waymo car from several different angles on fire from several prominent news sites, and I've also seen the videos of how that 1 car got set on fire (it wasn't the protesters; it was the pigs' flashbangs).
All the violence has been completely 1 sided and it's not the protesters who are being violent.
Every fucking post has at least one of these faux-incredulous replies now... This shit is so disingenuous.
Fuck off with the concern trolling.
They act like they're "just asking questions," yet they end up arguing with anyone who actually answers them, with obviously no interest in finding the truth.
Don't say anything, lawyer up