Asklemmy

Not caring about privacy because you have nothing to hide is the same thing like opposing freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

“Okay, unlock your phone and hand it over so I can go through it.”

Ask to put a camera in their bathroom

They need to consider the difference between having something to hide and having something to protect. Privacy is something to protect, regardless of what it might be in aid of.

Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different from saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. - Edward Snowden

Dynamic pricing.

Your grocery store will know enough about you to charge the maximum amount you're willing to pay and not a penny less.

Ask to see their butthole

"Unlock your phone and hand it to me"

"Yeah, that's what I thought"

I saw someone on YouTube respond with "give me your phone and let me go into the other room for an hour"

You have nothing to hide from the people currently in power

The people who used to say “I have nothing to hide” the loudest to me changed their tone real quick once Flock cameras started being used for ICE pickups, arresting people for traveling to other states for abortions, etc

Ask them to unlock their phone and hand it to you. Let you go through whatever you want.

You have nothing to hide until what was once acceptable rapidly changes.

what's accepted now, can and will be used against you...

Then why do you close the door when you take a shit?

do you shit with the door open?

They don't think they have anything to hide because they think of it as "evil activity"

Reframe it, like sure you are not doing anything bad but these companies don't care about criminal or evil behaviour. For them you are like livestock you only serve one purpose: making them money, there are no morals involved. They would sell your data to absolutely anyone for any reason! YOU can't think of anything bad they could do with your data because YOU are not evil but THEY absolutely are. If an evil person wants your data you shouldn't give it to them because they WILL find a way to use it against us, its a law of nature just like gravity.

A few points:

• "I have nothing to hide," means you've accepted the premise that the burden of innocence is on you. That you are guilty until proven innocent. There are a couple millenia of jurisprudence, saying 'innocent until proven guilty' should be the default. The US 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments get close, but they don't just come out and say it.

• "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." This has been attributed to a few people from Cardinal Richelieu to Voltaire. But the crux is, anyone can make someone appear guilty. Doesn't matter if you're innocent. The burden of proof has to be on the accuser, otherwise it's down to chaos, and tyrrany of the powerful and the mob.

• Personal privacy by default is one of those fundamental rights that gives us control of a lot of things around us. From freely walking down the street, to our shopping habits, license-plate-readers, location-tracking, who we associate with, and our healthcare.

• Imagine if the rules were changed so any time anyone wanted to use our data, including transactions, web and mobile interactions, credit-card, banking, voting, healthcare, whatever... they had to get explicit, single-use permission. How much weight would be lifted from everyone's shoulder. It means you, the individual are in charge.

• There's academic data on the psychological effects of surveillance. It has actual effect on one's behavior and mental health: https://academic.oup.com/nc/article/2024/1/niae039/7920510

• At this point, there are too many privacy leaks. The only reasonable solution is to flip it all on its head. EVERYTHING is private, unless there is a legitimate reason to pierce that veil, and the burden is on those wanting the data.

It'll have financial impacts on many business models. Yes, and? Do better.

Ask them for their SSN, bank account number, and how much money they make before taxes.

I do have something to hide. I wear clothes, because I don't want everybody to see my naked body. I keep my debit card hidden in my wallet, my keys to my car and house hidden in my pockets, my passwords are hidden in my password manager, my phone's unlock code is a secret, my SSN is hidden on a card in a secure place in my house, which I also lock up securely. I close the stall door when I use the bathroom, I don't walk around with my medical records taped to my back, I don't tell people all the invasive dirty or violent thoughts that randomly pop into my head, and I don't keep my car's title in the front seat, nor my bank account and routing numbers written on my arm.

And I would wager most other people are the same. All of those are completely legitimate things people have to hide, good reasons to keep them secret and locked away. It has nothing to do with being a criminal, or a sick pervert, or a domestic terrorist, or any of the other bullshit fake "explanations" for why people would value their privacy.

And all that doesn't even touch issues like systemic corporate or state oppression, data exploitation, or labor repression. It doesn't touch things like fascist governments coming to power and deciding that certain opinions or expressions of speech are "subversive" and must be banned. How easily "nothing to hide" can become "domestic terrorism" when certain groups come into power.

Shift the conversation towards autonomy, dignity and self-respect.

The user's interaction with the-billion-dollar-company's software is unpaid labour, which is why they profit and the user suffers. They suffer from having their data stolen; they suffer the expenses fostered on to them; they pay for the computers that spy on them; they pay for the electricity to run the spyware; they pay for the data-subscriptions that facilitate the theft of their data. They cover all the expenses of a billion-dollar-company and are deprived of any profit. They do not even garner a wage.

If one wishes to move towards the point of "my data is worthless" point out the company's profits or even its speculative valuations. Clearly it's not worthless. The products that are derived from their exploitation lead to even greater profits for those companies. "A.I." is a looting of the collective commons. A privatization of humanity's interaction with computers.

Do they like being exploited? Do they like their batteries draining faster, because their mobile-computer is running software to spy on them? Do they like running out of data because their mobile-computer is forcefully downloading ads and spyware-updates? Do they like ads? Do they like being interrupted by the highest bidder? Do they like annoying notifications that are just ads? Do they like this shitty experience? Are they complete docile slaves? They are less than wage-slaves for they do not even garner a wage! Have some self-respect and dignity!

Can I come and search your house? You have nothing to hide so what’s the problem?

Ask them why they have a bathroom door.

Unlock your phone, open WhatsApp, hand it to me.

Everyone has something to hide. That’s why I’m not posting my online banking password on Facebook or letting anyone install cameras in my toilet.

"I have nothing to share" It's healthy to want privacy and to say I don't want to share.

"Let me take a quick look through your browser history to confirm that you in fact have nothing to hide."

"So why do you wear clothes or don't share your credit card details online?"

The big perspective shift for me, is not that I feel obliged to privacy in public. It's when the institution observing is so big and centralised that it becomes a power issue. I don't care if you (the people) see all that I do in public, I have nothing to hide. I do care when your agenda is to see everything and gain power from it.

• me some time ago

Do they know about algorithmic pricing? Most people don't like the idea of a company charging them more based on how desperate they are.

Do they know about DHS' new Predictive Policing.

Do they know that scammers can use info they gather about them to run scams on their loved ones pretending to be them?

Do they know that there are legitimate reasons to want privacy? Ex. a journalist investigating a politician or corporation, or a single mom trying to keep themselves and their kids away from a crazy ex.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

You could make a super long argument against this but I think there's a few simple points (that you can use any number of, you don't really need all of these at once for most people) that usually get it across to people, at least from my experience.

There's the moral/emotional argument:

"You do have something to hide. Wanna unlock your phone and let me go through all your messages/photos/emails, leave the bathroom door open all the time, and never close your blinds? Even if you aren't doing something illegal AND have no problem with me seeing all your conversations and data, privacy is still a comfort for many people"

...and there's the monetary arguments:

"If a company is collecting that data, it's because they make money off it. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and it's the only reason Google, Facebook, etc can physically exist. If they know more about you, they can manipulate you into spending money with advertisers easier, allow political campaigns to manipulate your opinion more effectively, etc"

"You might not have a problem with how your data is used now, but if the law changes, or a corporation decides to do something different, suddenly data about your health and finances that was just for ads might then become a way to increase your health insurance pricing to the max you can afford"

do you shit with the door open , let me. take a few pics of you doing that

hand over your phone and let me take a look.

…for now.

What happens if they outlaw being gay, trans, communist, Jewish, Muslim, autistic…

Lock eyes and unzip their pants.

"Can I come watch next time you and your partner have sexy times?"

Saying privacy doesn't matter because you have nothing to hide is like saying free speech doesn't matter because you have nothing to say

Ask them for their social security number and credit card with ccv code.

I don't really care how much they know about me specifically. But I'm very worried how much they know about all of us.

"If you have nothing to hide, you must be one boring-ass, useless mutherfucker."

"That's sad"

Well, maybe they actually do have nothing to hide? I've recently realised that people who are dependent on Big Tech just don't value their privacy the same way babies don't care about being naked in front of other people. If you hand over the responsibility for your life to somebody else, you kind of hand over yourself, too, and there's no point in seeking privacy anymore. So the actual issue is people's passiveness and lack of agency in their interaction with tech. If they embrace FOSS, that is being a creator and not just a consumer in the world of software, they'll start valuing their privacy, just like a teenager learning to be independent simultaneously develops the need for having their own boundaries.