this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2026

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Why do they turn Federation into a dystopia? (feddit.org)

submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by Chemo@feddit.org to c/startrek@startrek.website

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I just don't get it. What is the freaking problem of those directors, trying to rewrite federation into some kind of dystopian tech fascism?

I was annoyed by the first Star Trek movie by JJ Abrams, with those police cops. I was alienated by those anti-android resentments in Picard. I stopped watching Discovery after the first episode, because the main protagonist was sent to some kind of labor prison for disobedience, where prisoners regularly die. I didn't think it could get any worse but just watching the first 10 minutes of Starfleet Academy makes me want to bury the whole franchise [edit: and stopped watching]. Some drumhead court-martial, lifelong prison sentence, violently separating a mother from her child and some goons beating up a prisoner. How in the hell is this the same federation of TNG, Voyager and DS9?

Star Trek is supposed to be the ONE fiction with a positive, utopian view on mankind and the future. I totally get the attraction of dystopian settings but for that I can read some Warhammer 40k novels. This really makes me furious.

Fortunately there is still Strange New Worlds.

Please spoiler me, when this bullshit in Starfleet Academy gets turned around in some twist, because otherwise I will just ignore the show.

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[–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 0 points 7 months ago

Hopefully this spoiler will help:
Your concern is precisely the primary theme of the show.

[–] paris@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I personally disliked the first episode of Starfleet Academy, but I'm glad I watched past it. So far in this show, the point (and it's very explicitly stated) is that Starfleet and the Federation are NOT supposed to be like that, and that change starts with the youth.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It just feels wrong. It's like having superman act like homelander. Even if the message is "things shouldn't be this way", you are tarnishing a symbol of hope and optimism. People like Star Trek, especially these days, because it gives them hope of a better future, beyond the struggles and corruption of modern society; where justice isn't just an abstract concept that has to be fought for every day. Where competence and intelligence is rewarded, and corruption and prejudice is not tolerated.

To take that and twist it by going "actually the future is shitty and still full of fascism and it will always be an uphill battle" is just soul crushing.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Personally, I think the message of "things could be fine without struggle or setbacks" would go up like a lead balloon in the year 2026 (or really, any year since at least 2014, probably much earlier). I don't see anything inspirational or hopeful when it seems like pure fantasy.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A goal to work toward. A hope that if we keep fighting, there will eventually be a future where people don't have to fight. That there is a path toward humanity reaching it's peak, rather than an endless sisyphian struggle until our extinction.

It's not "things could be fine without struggle or setbacks", Star Trek makes it VERY clear that it was not a smooth and easy path toward fully automated gay space communism. It's history of humanity is riddled with wars and uprisings and cultural slides backwards. But there is the idea that there could be a better future someday. Where greed and inequality are almost foreign concepts in society. Where science and reason finally win out against superstition and ignorance.

It may be a fantasy, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hold onto a belief that things will not always just continue to be shitty forever. Never forget the words that can make a happy man's joy turn to ash, or a sad man's misery into hope:

This too shall pass.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 0 points 7 months ago

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hold onto a belief that things will not always just continue to be shitty forever.

Neither does Star Trek. But neither the franchise nor I are so naive that we think that there's a "mission accomplished" state in which bad things don't happen any more.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well, I get you. I'm personally the oposite though: I need pure fantasy to give me hope, to set the ideal to strive for.

[–] Akuchimoya@startrek.website 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I understand where you're coming from, but, to put it plainly, this show is not meant for you. Media reflects the times; Enterprise is the way it was because of 9/11. Academy is for the young people of today who have grown up in and are facing an increasingly bleak and hostile future. They will have to fight for a better future, because the one that is being handed to them is a dumpster fire. A show that shows them a better future is attainable and models how to do it is what they need, not a fantasy that is unobtainable.

[–] UltraMagnus@startrek.website 0 points 7 months ago

Strangely, I find old Star Trek more comforting in times like these. Though perhaps that's the nostalgia talking

[–] Chemo@feddit.org 0 points 7 months ago

Thank you. I really liked the second episode so far and I think I can live with a federation that finds back to its former values.

[–] Routhinator@startrek.website 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Already some amazing points here, but I will add one thing:

No matter how utopian your empire becomes, those who grow up in utopia do not have their guard up watching for evil in every corner. The Star Wars flipping back and forth from Republic to Empire over the millennia makes sense.

The federation existed for barely a millennia in its first incarnation. A fall of a galactic empire makes sense. Rebuilding it makes for good story.

Especially, and I can't stress this enough, when it is a parallel to the world we live in. Trek has always been a way to mirror events and teach moral lessons... But most of all, hope.

[–] clucose@lemmy.ml 0 points 7 months ago

That discounts that star fleet has to be on watch against outside threats. This is the balance for their utopia.

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 0 points 7 months ago

Great points all around. "Hope and Kindness" may seem like obvious cliche lessons, but one could argue that in today's political climate they are as important as TOS calling out societal racism.

[–] Chemo@feddit.org 0 points 7 months ago

The Star Wars flipping back and forth from Republic to Empire over the millennia makes sense.

Star Wars society is a constant shithole. I don't think the slaves of Tatooine care about if the senate or the emperor rules.

A fall of a galactic empire makes sense.

It does, but this is not the plot of a single show but a constant theme in most of the new series.

[–] T156@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

The federation existed for barely a millennia in its first incarnation.

A millennium is still a good long time, in fairness. There are entire countries that haven't even come near to that.

[–] pedz@lemmy.ca 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm on the same boat. Apart from Lower Decks, I can't watch the new shows. I keep hoping a new show might fix it, and be for me, but the longer it goes, the less I'm interested in Star Trek.

Lately I've been thinking about unsubscribing from all the Star Trek communities, as all the discussions and hype about the new shows is making me think I'm no longer a trekkie. I loved TNG, DS9, VOY and tolerated ENT, but the new shows are clearly not made for me.

[–] Chemo@feddit.org 0 points 7 months ago

Did you give Strange New Worlds a shot? In my opinion in its core it holds the old values of Star Trek.

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

they stared downgrading the federation in DS9 man.

[–] strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz 0 points 7 months ago

@Chemo
> Why do they turn Federation into a dystopia?

I had the same niggle, but I'm hoping it's a way of setting up a redemption arc.

Like when they replaced Captain Georgiou with Emperor Georgiou. She had to learn the value of the Federation's way of doing things. But they also learned a thing or 2 from her.

[–] Skunk@jlai.lu 0 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Tbh Starfleet Academy makes a U turn on that decision the minute after, explaining that because of the war/burn they were jerks but they regret it and try to make amends bla bla bla.

Academy gave me this utopia feeling, but in 2026 it made me more depressed than hopeful as I finally realized that I will never find a Starfleet Academy on our world, aka a bunch of peoples working together to make humanity a better whatever if their skin is pink or they believe in the giant flying spaghetti monster.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (24 children)

Not a big trekie, but I never trusted the "Earth is a giant utopia and everything is perfect" story

Like, I'm sure there's a class of people most of Starfleet is made up of like Picard, but not everyone on earth owns a fucking vineyard.

I always thought The Expanse was probably how it really was. No one "has to work" because there's not enough work. So the majority of the population gets a little UBI and blows it on drugs and alcohol to numb the emptiness

Like, do they even show "current earth" that much in Star Trek? Or is it just wealthy Starfleet members talking about how awesome their lives were?

I dunno, it's just an unbelievable story. If it's really supposed to be a perfect utopia, it's just unbelievable writing.

[–] Skunk@jlai.lu 0 points 7 months ago

I also think "normal non working" people on earth are closer to The Expanse depiction rather than perfect utopia.

Nothing is perfect, I like calling that a "normaltopia". The federation might not always succeed at being an utopia but at fucking least they are trying.

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[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (5 children)

It's been happening for a while; they keep wanting to make it "darker and edgier" which started with some episodes of TNG (The pegasus) and just kept getting worse (deep space 9).

During TOS, things were not exactly properly utopian either, but I haven't watched enough to comment properly.

[–] T156@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'd honestly go much further back and put it at The Measure of a Man.

A supposedly eutopian Federation should never have been in a position where it would need to go to trial over whether someone could be compelled to undergo a lethal medical procedure (Maddox admitted he wouldn't be able to reassemble Data after disassembly), nor be reclassified as property/salvage so they could not legally refuse.

They would never do it with any of the organic humanoids in their ranks, how is Data an exception?

It basically proves Chancellor Gorkon's words true. The Federation is an organic human(oid)s only club. If you're not one, then any rights you thought you had go away as soon as it's no longer convenient.

If Starfleet had wished to take Voyager's EMH and vivisect his matrix to figure out what made him sapient, nothing would have prevented them from legally doing so, and neither the Voyager nor the Doctor would have legal means of preventing it.

Rights being conditional hardly seems like the kind of thing that belongs in eutopia.

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fair observation, but from my perspective what differs between the Pegasus and Measure of a Man is that the problem in Pegasus was whole cloth institutional. I get what you are saying though, there were no existing legal frameworks for data to reside in that stopped him from even being considered in passing as property, which is bad. However, it seemed to be one guy that wanted to do that, and the trial was held to examine if that would be right or not, and to establish the legal precedent.

Wheras with the Pegasus, the investigation disappears into a hole and not touched since. Instead of punishing Pressman, he gets made Admiral.

https://youtu.be/9eEGmC9FeFU?t=178

[–] T156@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

However, it seemed to be one guy that wanted to do that, and the trial was held to examine if that would be right or not, and to establish the legal precedent.

At the same time, Starfleet also enabled it. The entire case would have never happened if it had just been Maddox asking for Data's voluntary participation. Part of it was that Starfleet was trying to compel Data to submit to the procedure, and also prevent him from leaving Starfleet to avoid it (hence the property angle).

We also know that the ruling was constrained to that one case both from Voyager, where it was outright stated to not apply to the Doctor, and because Data also had to fight Starfleet to prevent them from taking away Lal. While the fight was ended early as Lal died (possibly as a result of the emotional stress), it would not be too surprising if another legal battle resulted. Maddox might have started the events of Measure of a Man, but he was not singularly responsible for that whole business.

Wheras with the Pegasus, the investigation disappears into a hole and not touched since. Instead of punishing Pressman, he gets made Admiral.

We don't actually know what happened from after the Pegasus' cloaking device was revealed, other than that Pressman and the rest of his crew were likely to face court martial (and Pressman had "high-up friends" in Starfleet). He was promoted to Admiral before it was exposed, and it's unclear what he was promoted for, since he was already Admiral when he tried to get it back.

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

We don’t actually know what happened from after the Pegasus’ cloaking device was revealed, other than that Pressman and the rest of his crew were likely to face court martial (and Pressman had “high-up friends” in Starfleet). He was promoted to Admiral before it was exposed, and it’s unclear what he was promoted for, since he was already Admiral when he tried to get it back.

Just a stickler here, he was made Admiral after the mutiny and whatnot during the first cloaking trials, which happened before the episode (and before he was made admiral), which caused the cover up discussed in the scene I linked.

We don't know what happens to any of the plot points after Picard De-cloaks in front of the Romulans.

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