I mean, women do their part to contribute to consumerism.
The main reason why guys want money is so they can be more appealing to women.
this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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Men's Liberation
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But that's not women's fault, that's patriarchys fault for instilling into men on a deep cultural level that they need to make money to "provide" and then capitalism exploiting us workers so hard that that "providing" goal is impossible for a lot of us.
A lot of men deal with that insecurity by entering hustle grindset mindsets. Others get taken advantage of by right wing groups and say it's women's expectations at fault, not understanding that feminism also combats that expectation.
The point being, patriarchy binds us all, men and women with its expectations, and capitalism has made meeting those expectations impossible for a lot of people resulting in a double wombo combo of fucking men over.
It's not their fault insomuch as they can't think for themselves, I'll agree with you there.
But the agreement stops when you blame the patriarchy over consumerism. No, this generation has been convinced to sell itself out to the lowest bidder. Average women are proud consumers that want to live like instagram models. Any kind of modesty is shunned in their social circles. It's drowned out by "look at this new thing I bought! Please praise me for spending money!"
The sex speaks for itself. Men have a ridiculously easy time getting laid if they have money, even if they're pieces of shit in every other way.
I should also note. The concept you are referring to as "they can't think for themselves" is called False Consciousness. The idea that oppressive systems like patriarchy and capitalism create this sense that you are acting with complete free will but you actually are following a set of expectations and thoughts and even language that feedback loops on itself in a never ending reinforcement loop.
It's like, your right at the core of what your saying. There is truth there. But you use such anti women language rather than targeting the systems, ideologies and incentives that make both men and women this way.
complete free will
Hyperbole.
It's a spectrum, for sure. I wouldn't be who I am without the influence of others.
That said, women are way more likely to go along with what the crowd (their peers) is doing than I am. If they disagree with the crowd, they are way less likely to put those disagreements into action than I am.
They cannot think for themselves and it's encouraged by those who refuse to acknowledge it. It's not a problem unique to women, but they suffer from it more than men because women have been conditioned to operate as one unit.
What is this community about? I have read the sidebar, but I have not understand it...
Put simply, this is a place for criticism of the oppressive gendered expectations placed on men with a focus on intersectionality.
I think unfortunately the one theme we are missing and the one most important is solidarity.
In my experience, everyone is focussed on their community and furthering their cause. Rightly so in many cases.
One of the starkest I always felt was when talking about men, children and family courts. When I discuss this online, and even occasionally IRL with feminists. The conversation usually is one of acknowledgement of a problem followed by a cold "we'll support that when we get the things we need". It's a cold brutal unsympathetic view that doesn't help that feeling of isolation and hardens that "us vs them" division. Many feminists don't see that the division sewn is intentional, to stop us uniting and fighting for the rights of the working class. Be it trans rights, gay rights, women's rights, freedom from racial discrimination and men's rights. They are human rights. We have to stand shoulder to shoulder and make our voice heard in support. We also have to hope that folks from other groups will support us.
There is nothing more isolating than fighting in the corners of others and then when the time comes get a cold rejection when they come for you. It pushes folk to these liars and snake oil salesmen from the right. We need to remove that oxygen from the fire so those bigoted views can wither and die. Right now, we're losing that battle. DEI initiatives are being rolled back. Under the guise of fighting positive discrimination, they take more. The destroy awareness of bias, fair selection processes and opportunities for all.
I fear that the true strength of men fighting for fairness is you need to fight for others, extend the olive branch of friendship and then hope when we fight some will join us even if at times it feels like we will fight alone.
I've lost bigoted anti-trans friends who've swallowed the snake oil but to some, I'll always be seen as a part of the patriarchy, purely because of my gender. So will our sons. I hope they don't have the same experience of where they cross from innocent child to evil propagator of the patriarchy despite doing nothing wrong other than being born male and becoming an adult.
I hate none of the three.
Then you don't know what capitalism is.
Or perhaps I just think differently than you.
Probably both.
I do not think it's worth acknowledging a difference in opinion when the problem at its core is the difference in what those words mean. I don't think we have a difference in opinion. I think he does not know what I or the article mean. If someone could just find the words to tell him in a way he understands then I feel we would be surprised to see that no disagreement existed in the first place.
Now to find the words...
I think you may have better luck by adopting the Mr Roger's style of communication.
Telling someone they don't know what a word means probably is going to make them become defensive and bounce off instead of engaging with what you're saying, regardless of you being correct.
I think people who ask generalized questions like, "Why does group X have irrational opinion Y about subject Z?" should instead engage with individuals about why they feel a certain way on a specific subject. I think they would find that people make up a full spectrum, opinions are more diverse than the right one and the ridiculous one, and people don't personify two extreme opposing memes.