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When I was young, raised religious, there was an intense focus on finding purpose in life, almost as if there is no value to life itself without some end goal.
After leaving religion and superstition behind everything that is left is remarkable, fascinating, and beautiful. There's no need for life to have a purpose, a sunset doesn't need to clock in to work, a rock doesn't have an active role to perform but it's still fine for it to exist, us too.
I used to wish there was done grander purpose, but have you ever considered where that ends? Say you do have an ultimate purpose on earth, to collect all the smeeshmups, you do it and then what? Say your purpose is to be a good little Christian person and go to heaven, then what? Glorify some monkey with an anus for eternity because he agreed you did a good job? Yikes
This is one of my cats, do you think she's looking for meaning?
Life just... is. Don't look for a deeper meaning. Enjoy what you have.
Now imagine your life without the luxury of a pampered, beloved floof by your side?
Unfathomable, and thankfully not something I have to worry about (there are animal shelters near you that will just give you a cat if you give them money)
I'm not sure if believe in a "meaning" to life, but I'm here for a good time. I'm married (2nd time) with 3 kids. I work to support us and pay the bills. But why do I keep living? Why not kill myself in leiu having a cup of coffee? Because death is inevitable and if it's going to happen anyway, I can use the brief time here to experience all that I can.
I figure the Universe is going to go on with or without me and there's not a thing I can do to change anything. But I'm not here to change the Universe, I'm here so it can change me. I'm a bird soaring through an infinite void with a brief passing through a bright window. Why not appreciate the view while it lasts? And if I can, why not try to make anyone's else's brief time out of the void a good time too? Life is absurd, existence is chaos, and it's all just funny as absolute shit.
I think really, there's no reason for anything but ice cream is good, hikes in the woods are rad, hanging out with pets and friends is joy. Why stop doing that just because nothing matters?
This is my philosophy. I credit George Carlin for summarizing it with “People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.”
Meaning: try to do no harm, give love where I can, and hopefully leave the world a little better where I touched upon.
Why I keep living (bit of a TW):
TW
My own death doesn’t really bother me, but the logic follows that one’s passing radiates pain outwards to those who are still alive. So, to minimize pain to my loved ones, especially my animals who wouldn’t know why I was gone.
Also experiencing video games.
Yeah I think I'm in the same boat as you here to be honest, as I can still acknowledge that a negative emotional impact on those I care about also negatively impacts my emotions, so that provides me with some grounding in the topic. Loose grounding though, especially if you take the idea that there is no meaning to its limits.
That’s fair.
I’m of the worldview that while technically there is no “meaning,” doesn’t mean there’s no effect (even if it’s infinitesimal). Just because there’s no purpose in pushing a ball across a table, it still moves when you touch it.
It also places, in philosophical framing, that humans are the creators and arbiters of the concept of our own “meaning.” The fact that we ask of it, and in some cases find there is no such thing from external forces, suggests that it comes from us. However you go from there is the beauty of the notion.
Bit of a side tangent lol but thank you for sharing and engaging :) /gen
Love this way of looking at it tbh, definitely meaning is something that humans come up with, just trying to fine a convincing answer personally. Really appreciate you commenting, feels good to engage with such a lovely community :))
Do you have memories as a kid where it was pure fun and no expectations? I honestly think that there are 4 types of personalities that people lean towards:
Dogs, dog owners, dog guardians and cats
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The dogs just want to have fun, work hard for their owners and play in the back yard.
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The dog and cat owners can be cruel, great, fun, abusive, etc., but always have rules that the dog is constantly trying to guess what they are. The cat doesn't care.
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The dog and cat guardians are gudes to everyone around them
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The cats are what everyone knows about cats.
The dogs and the dog/cat guardians look for meaning in their life.
What do you keep living for?
I want to see what happens in the future.
Is there a specific person, goal, or idea that you work for?
My primary goal is to retire and not have to work anymore.
Is there no meaning to life in your opinion?
There is no external meaning. People can provide their own meaning.
I did this kind of self-exploration at one point. I used to find all my meaning through work, which I later realized was leaving me feeling unfulfilled. So I lowered my professional ambitions in favor of focusing on the relationships I had with close friends and family.
Then I changed genders. And then those relationships got completely fucked up. And now I feel like I have nothing left to live for.
So I guess if you're looking for meaning, my advice would be to pick something that doesn't depend on other people.
I think one of the best phrases I've heard from the atheist community is "Do No Harm". Very similarly, the Golden Rule, which almost every civilization has a version of, says "Do to others that which you would have them do to you". Beyond that, there are no rules one must abide by. If you would wish others to stand up for you when you cannot, then do so for them. If you wish that people would help you when you are in need, do so to them.
Ultimately, you create your own meaning from the little things you find joy in and if you follow the Golden Rule then you can help others do the same.
About 20 years ago, I was walking through a city centre with a friend, on the way to catch a train. A couple of Mormons tried to stop us, asking, "Have you ever thought about the purpose of life?"
Barely breaking stride, I shouted out, "Hot sweaty man sex!"
I don't consider that to be the purpose of life^1^, but remembering the look on their faces helps keep me grounded whenever I'm inclined to consider questions that cannot be answered.
That said, my resolution to the conflict between free will and determinism is to assume assume that 'truth' operates on a principle of equivalence. That's to say, if two models generate the equivalent outcomes, they are equivalently 'true'. The universe we observe could have deterministic rules that give rise to the same observable outcomes as one in which we have absolute free will, in which case the two models are equivalent. It would make no sense to endow one with a greater truth than the other.
That's a slightly difference definition of 'truth' than is commonly accepted, but it works for me.
^1^: It's just a nice bonus.
I don't think I necessarily agree with the way you present truth, but it's an interesting line of thinking. I do definitely agree with your opinion on the bonuses life has to offer!
shrug
Foods pretty good, lot of things i haven't tried yet to look forward to. I like hearing/reading/seeing new stories, too.
There are three ways to look at the meaning of life.
The realistic: the is no meaning of life, no grand idea behind it.
The biological: the meaning of life is to procreate.
The philosophical: The meaning of life is to make the world better than when you arrived.
Since the first two are boring to talk about, I'll skip right to the third, making the world better than it was when you arrived.
In my case, I am an IT guy, I solve other people's problems and enable them to do their job, making their day slightly better.
I am also a hobby photographer, who share photos for free on the internet, people seem to like them so I have made their day slightly better as well.
Perhaps I can make your day slightly better by linking my Pixelfed: https://metapixl.com/Stoy
Great photos, really. You have a good eye for details, and I like the 'appreciation-snapshot' type of photography, like with the Icom IC-R6, the throttle of the steam ship, the lynx, and the lights in the front landing gear of the airplane.
It reminds me of those moments where you look around, and you notice a pleasing or interesting detail which catches your attention. The more of those moments I have, the more I appreciate the life and the positive in the world we created.
People have put a lot of hours into all the good we have in the world, and sometimes I am reminded through a detail.
Those owl pictures definitely made my day better, cheers :))
I'm going to throw a trigger warning on this next part just in case:
suicide ideation
I have been living with major depression for decades. I am taking medication for it, but that just makes it more manageable; it doesn't go away.
I am alive today because killing myself would hurt the people I love. Also, because I have a cat that I love very much, and I don't want him to have to miss me. Also, this is a much more minor driver, but I am excited for new seasons of my favorite shows and for movies I haven't seen and books I haven't read.
I find living to be a burden, but I feel obligated to do it because of my relationships. At the very least, though, I can find entertainment while doing it.
I'm looking forward to lunch tomorrow
First, great choice in reading (Im a fan of Camus as well).
As for the meaning of life thing...
Thats the neat part. You don't.
Thats why in absurdist fiction like Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. Its not supposed to make sense and the universe is under no obligation to do so for you (the books even postulate that the universe does not want anyone to know so if someone figures it out it winks out of existance and replaced itself with something weirder, some scientists think this has happened before).
That goes back to Camus point about the remedies for the bleakness of early-mid 20th century philosophy. He proposed three options, Nhilism, a leap of faith (looking at you Kierkegaard), or absurdism, the last being what the doctor perscribes, but also requires the most effort because you have to find your question to the ultimate answer your self... Or not, who cares. Lets go spend some time by a lake that thinks its a gin & tonic.
Have experiences and respect other life. That's really it.
The Earth created lifeforms that can understand the universe. Even if there are other conditions out there that can create life like that, it's not common. There is unfathomable empty space between planets and their moons. To say nothing of between planets or stars or galaxies.
Good news! You're one of these rare combinations of matter that can understand the universe. In a real way, we are the universe trying to understand itself. Scientists explore it in a deep way, and should be respected for that, but you don't need a PhD to participate. A single celled organism who figured out better ways to swim in its little pool helped the universe understand itself. The first human to taste a strawberry helped the universe understand itself. Have experiences.
There's a lot of other life also participating in this, and they should be respected, too.
I don't think there is meaning. I've never read Camus or Sartre and don't really know what determinism is (quick read on Wikipedia, I think I agree with it?), but
I keep living because it makes me feel good for the most part, and because the thought of dying makes me feel bad for the most part.
Two phrases I like for this:
There isn’t the meaning of life, there is your meaning of life. This realistic approach recognizes our constantly shifting values and how radically different it can be per person.
And of course Herbert’s
The mystery of life isn't a problem to be solved, but a reality to experience
I think B.B. King has the solution:
I've got a good mind to give up on living and go shopping instead.
It feels like a paradox to me: the meaning of life is to find meaning in life.
I'm no well read philosopher, but the idea that life has a meaning is repulsive to me. It implies that there is a correct state of affairs, and introduces the possibility that you've done something wrong, that you failed to fulfill some purpose. Nuts to that, there are no wrong choices, besides the obvious ones like murder and not brushing your teeth
Well mate I'm sorry to say you just funded a new philosophy school AND a new religion called shiny teeth.
Jokes apart, I agree 100 with you and the concept that only the person themselves can decide what is the purpose of their life. And 11 out of 10 times it won't make sense to anyone else, so no point in taking it too seriously.
I keep living at this point simply because God wants me alive. If He didn't, He would have killed me by now. When I was in a really dark place (I'm doing better now), I realised that killing myself was pointless, because if it was my time to die, God would take me from this life regardless. So God must still have a plan and uses for me and thus, I should still be alive, and that's meaning enough for the fact that my body continues to operate.
Not to bully your belief here but how would you justify this with the fact that God allows many really bad people to live? Just curious of understanding this mindset and I hope this doesn't offend you.
Ive been lucky to have discovered Stoicism early in life and that what has been driving me for decades now!
To put it shortly Stoicism focuses on self growth with things like identifying natural human virtues (need for knowledge, justice, temperance, courage) and focusing life around improving those. This is expressed through a princicle called dichotomy of control which says that there are things that are out of our control like death that we shouldn't focus on and things that are like natural virtues that are something we can do to improve upon.
It also deconstructed and included all of the cool contemporary ideas like mindfulness and being cosmopolitan two millenia ago so its a really great suite of natural philosophies that survived the test of time.
Stoicism is also low key Idealist as in your natural perception of your own virtues and state is the only real thing that matters which is what makes this ideology so much more freeing. You don't judge yourself against some mystical ideal but to your own perception of purpose and growth.
It's an easy, frictionless and a highly rewarding way to live :)
I have so many goals man. I wanna travel the world, meat new people, stay in one of those hostels or that website where you can work to stay. I wanna scuba dive, rock climb, surf, run marathons, hikes and all sorts of stuff before I get too old to do anything fun.
For me “it’s complicated”. I live with passive suicidal ideation on a daily basis. Some days are better than others, but generally speaking I don’t want to actually kill myself. However, the idea of being dead does not bother me as it ought other people.
That being said, I do stick around especially for my two sons. I could not bring myself to not be a part of their lives; especially right now as they are 12 and 10. I don’t want to rob them of their father, and I do want to see them through to when they have a life of their own and have their own family (whatever that may look like for them).
As for meaning in life: ultimately everything we do is only for the living. When I die, my life only matters to the people whom I was closest (my kids). Beyond that, who cares right? I have no delusions that I’ll be remembered by anyone else.
But I do have other things I’d like to achieve: find another love of my life, travel the world more, complete as much of my bucket list as possible (e.g. skydiving, bungee jumping, scuba diving, etc).