Lefty Memes
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of "ML" (read: Dengist) influence. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, discussion and agitprop/stuff that's better fit for a poster than a meme go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme. Please post agitprop here)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Try to use alt text or image descriptions to allow for greater accessibility
(Please take a look at our wiki page for the guidelines on how to actually write alternative text!)
We encourage alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if they’re too complex.
We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.
When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.
0.5.1 Style tip about abbreviations and short forms
When writing stuff like "lol" and "iirc", it's a good idea to try and replace those with their all caps counterpart
- ofc => OFC
- af = AF
- ok => OK
- lol => LOL
- bc => BC
- bs => BS
- iirc => IIRC
- cia => CIA
- nato => Nato (you don't spell it when talking, right?)
- usa => USA
- prc => PRC
- etc.
Why? Because otherwise (AFAIK), screen readers will try to read them out as actually words instead of spelling them
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" (read: Dengists) (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
6. Don't irrationally idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Sexual assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
view the rest of the comments
Stop peddling horseshit.
That's what you are... a peddler of horseshit - you know, because that's what you are doing... peddling horseshit.
Kindly stop that.
edit: Somebody requested that I "rebutt" the obvious horseshit peddled by the obvious horseshit peddler
So... courtesy of [deleted] from r/AskHistorians 6 years ago:
Summary
While LGBT people were oppressed following the Cuban revolution, there is no good evidence that Che Guevara was personally involved in any significant way. The system of forced labor (which was used to persecute gay men) was established after Guevara had left Cuba. There is also relatively little evidence of homophobia in Che's personal life; the whole of his (very prolific) writing contains only one homophobic statement (a line in The Motorcycle Diaries, discussed below), which uses language that was unfortunately quite common for the time and place. Claims that Che "frequently used homophobic slurs" appear to be baseless as well.
Forced Labor and LGBT Persecution in Revolutionary Cuba
After the Cuban revolution, a system of labor camps (called Military Units to Aid Production) were established, as an alternative to conscription for those who were unwilling or unable to join the military. One group of people who were prohibited from military service, and thus made to work in these camps, were homosexual men (when people say that Castro and the communists "put gay people in camps," this is what they are referring to). This system lasted for several years, until its abolition in July 1968. The persecution of LGBT people in revolutionary Cuba (principally through the use of this system) is discussed in a 2010 paper in the journal Social History.
While this system of forced labor was undeniably a human rights violation of the highest order, to pin the blame for this on Che is simply ahistorical. The camps were first established in November 1965, by which time Che had already left Cuba to spread the revolution abroad (see Jon Lee Anderson's book). At that time when the camps were set up, Che Guevara was having a terrible time in the Congo, not oppressing LGBT people in Cuba.
The blame for the labor camp system should instead be placed upon Fidel Castro, who himself admitted the injustice of his government's homophobia in a 2010 interview with the Mexican newspaper La Jornada:
In short, while LGBT people were indeed persecuted after the revolution, the blame for this should not be laid at the feet of Che Guevara.
Homophobia in Che Guevara's Personal Life
The claims about Guevara's homophobia ultimately go back to one particular quote from The Motorcycle Diaries (which is pretty much the only authentic quote we have in which Che even mentions homosexuality):
This quote is certainly homophobic, but unfortunately it was probably not unusual language for a Latin American man in the 1950's (or frankly, a man in most places in the 1950's), and it doesn't rise to the level of "extremely virulent and vocal homophobia," as Che is often accused of having harbored.
Most other allegations surrounding Che's homophobia are baseless. Take for instance the claim that Che had the American poet Allen Ginsberg deported from Cuba for calling him "cute" (a claim that often appears in "things you didn't know about Che" articles on right-leaning websites). This claim is quite easy to refute, seeing as Che and Ginsberg were never in Cuba at the same time. According to Ginsberg's diaries, he was in Cuba from January 18th to February 17th of 1965, during which time Guevara was on a diplomatic tour (having left for Moscow on November 4th of 1964), from which he would not return until March 15th (see page 592 of Anderson's book in the sources), about a month after Ginsberg had been deported. Most other "Che hated gay people" claims are of similar merit (that is to say, none).
Sources:
Gender policing, homosexuality and the new patriarchy of the Cuban Revolution, 1965–70 (Social History), by Lillian Guerra
La Jornada interview with Fidel Castro, 2010
The Motorcycle Diaries by Ernesto "Che" Guevara
Iron Curtain Journals: January-May 1965 by Allen Ginsberg
Che: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson
I don’t understand the consternation with accepting Che was homophobic.
He was a product of his times.
Is it really that shocking that a man in the 1950s has homophobic views?
You linked a source saying this; he called a gay man a pervert.
Why die on this hill?
Yeah, I mean, even FDR personally murdered dozens of gay people with a chainsaw.
Oh wait! I made that up! But I bet I can find some problematic statement he said at some point in his life, so I guess that's fine that I said that.
wait wait wait, i thought the whole point of this was the insinuation that he was homophonic and is blamed for creating gay work camps and committing human rights violations against gay people. this person lays out a detailed rebuttal on the major talking points that would back the accusers assertions… but now it’s “well everyone at the time was homophobic!, so i am still technically right!”
so you do know there is a difference between someone who uses the word gay to mean bad or gross, and someone who commands the creation of concentration camps to commit human rights violations against gay people right?
it’s a little dishonest. is this moving the goal post?
The latter relies on the former to attain power. We should tolerate neither.
so you don’t recognize the difference then. and your entire point is meaningless.
and i would think you would be happy to know that he hasn’t used such language in quite a few years.
Translation: "I want to normalize but not reclaim a slur. How do I spin this so it doesn't seem so bad?"
you are inventing an enemy of your own choosing instead of being honest with this “discussion”
i never said that, but i can see why you would rather argue someone who acutely believed that then admit you lack the bare basic nuance to separate hitler from an edgy 90’s tween, due to not wanting to actully defend the argument against Che after, from what i can see, is a very reasonable rebuttal.
you must have something against Che, but are unable to articulate why he is bad
Nice gaslighting attempt, but I'm not buying it. If someone uses "gay" as a synonym for anything bad, I don't respect them.
Toodle-oo!
ok, good to know for certain that you were a waste of time
Like honestly, how many dudes born in the 1920's had any sort of positive view on homosexuality? Crazy how hero worship whitewashes people who weren't heros.
Is that the problem you see here?
Really?
A shitlib waddles into a leftist space, does what every shitlib does whenever Che's name gets mentioned and craps out the standard shitlib disinformational propaganda about him they always do, and that's the problem you see here?
I hate to be the one to break it to you... but LQBTQ people get to be perverts too - just like the rest of us.
Oh yeah, he was probably being sex-positive when he called homosexuality perversion /s
Do you want to like, maybe, rebutt what they posted?
Fine. Check my edit.
Do tell... will that be enough for the people who can't spot obvious horseshit peddled by obvious horseshit peddlers?
Don't be upset because they were happy to "rebutt" the point instead of throwing a fit like you expected.
Dumbass.
This is the good tempered me.
Now answer the fucking question.