this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2026
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[–] HailSeitan@lemmy.world 66 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Actually God only demands a monetary fine if you cause a miscarriage in someone who didn’t want one (Exodus 21), and requires that you drink a potion that will give you a miscarriage if you got pregnant by someone who isn’t your husband (Numbers 5). If only those Republicans could read their own Bible, they would be very upset.

[–] deacon@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That it is a monetary fine is really crucial as one of two ways of establishing that the Mosaic law that Christians leverage for their legalism does not consider an unborn fetus a person.

First, as noted, the fine for a miscarriage is monetary only if no harm comes to the woman. If the woman is hurt, the Mosaic concept of reciprocal justice (eye for eye, etc), which was likely borrowed from the code of Hammurabi, kicks in. The death of an unborn fetus has no reciprocal punishment because that form of justice applies to people.

The second way of establishing that an unborn fetus is not considered a person in the hebrew bible is right in the second version of the creation story in Genesis 2:7

then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being (emphasis mine)

So here first, and in various other places in the bible (and in the broader Greco-Roman culture in which the nascent Christianity would later form), life began at first breath.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Yeah when I was a Christian I thought that all was pretty explicitly clear

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

I believe the new testament also makes it pretty clear that it's not up to the followers to dole out God's justice. Something something turn the other cheek and something something let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Also pretty fucking arrogant to claim to speak on behalf of a diety. And pretty fucking stupid to believe anyone claiming such.

[–] Australis13@fedia.io 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Please be aware that those are common misrepresentations of those texts popularised by the NIV translation.

Many translations show Exodus 21 demands life for life and a fine if the child survives but suffers injury. The NIV is one of several exceptions (although probably the most popular one) that instead translates it as a fine for a miscarriage (the original NASB also said this, but the 1995 revision corrected it).

Numbers 5 is a religious test and requires God to enact punishment. The "potion" has no abortifacient components and commentaries suggest that the punishment was infertility. The NIV is again an exception here suggesting miscarriage when most other translations (eg. NKJV, NASB, RSV, ESV, Amplified, Young's Literal, etc.) do not.

By all means call out their misuse of the Bible or their lack of consistency with it, but please be careful making claims like this -- it just undermines credibility.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Wait, this was a defense of the Bible and the people who use it to inform their beliefs about abortion???

The fact that the meaning can be the complete opposite depending on what (modern) translation you use? Who's credibility is being undermined here again?

[–] Australis13@fedia.io 1 points 6 months ago

No, it's pointing out that these sort of claims are flawed and the need to be careful not to undermine one's own argument. People on both sides of the argument use the Bible incorrectly or are unaware of the nuance of the text.

As I said, I'm all for calling out the hypocrisy, but it's important to get it right. And if different translations have different views (and one isn't willing to get into the weeds of what the original text actually says), then perhaps we shouldn't be using those passages as a "slam dunk"?

[–] HailSeitan@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

This doesn’t seem to be a NIV issue.

When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands

—Exodus 21:22, NRSV

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.

—Numbers 5:22, NRSV

What translation(s) are you referring to that seem to suggest something different?

[–] PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

God says mandatory abortions apparently, hooo boy, Wes Groggins is sure gonna feel like a dope when he hears!