this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2025
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United States | News & Politics
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I believe there's a language issue here. This article (and Lemmy in general) uses a more global definition of "Liberal" which is completely different from the meaning the word has in the US. After arriving here (Lemmy) I've learned that the meaning it has in the article is a specific political position which is distinct from "leftist" or "progressive" - it's based more on economic policy than social policy, and basically means something like "maybe slightly left of conservative capitalist" - which I now understand US Democrats pretty much are economically.
Before learning that, this article would have made zero sense, and sounded like it was written by an ally of Trump himself
To be clear, social views, political views, and economic views all shape each other. They aren't really sliders or scales like people like to think they are.
As for the US, it actually uses the term "liberal" correctly, the US just has thoroughly shut out the left to the point that liberal is the farthest "left" mainstream discourse is traditionally allowed to go.
To add though, even US liberals still 100% agree with their world counterparts, that capitalists should control the world, and that communists / socialists are evil people that should be hunted down.
Good point. I guess I still have not gotten used to the meaning of that word here, and keep thinking people are somehow hating on liberal ideals like equality, etc.
Also seeing Trump et al. hating on "libs" (meaning people who want equality and accept people of color/lgbt, etc) makes this a really nice mess.
Liberals == moderates, not followers of human rights
Same people as King described 50 years ago
That I totally understand. Fuck moderates.
This has reinforced my beliefs that half of all political disputes online is word definitions
Nah, that half is just people who still watch cable news propaganda and are clueless to actual reality
Those moderates include AOC, Sanders, Omar, Jayapal etc
So basically fuck the US, I guess? I'm not from there, so I have no dog in that race, but for me it sounds like AOC/Sanders/etc would be very good for at least US citizens.
I have not heard of any true "leftist" politicians in the US.
I mean, four amputated limbs may be better than being robbed and buried alive, I guess.
Equality isn't really a liberal idea. Liberalism is primarily about individualism and free flow of capital, people here tend to be leftists that support socialism and are against capitalism.
That's your definition. I understand it's a common definition here. But even the first chapter of wikipedia has a much wider definition of liberalism. If you are hating on capitalism or moderates, why not say so?
Literally from wikipedia: Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law.
I support socialism and hate capitalism, but I still don't consider liberalism to be "all bad.
The extent to which the "virtues" of liberalism exist is that which facilitates the free flow of capital. Capitalists sell to workers the idea that capitalism sees everyone as equal, but that's in contrast to feudalism. Technically, anyone with the money can be a capitalist, but in practice those with money keep it and grow it while those without sell their labor-power to survive. Liberalism is a superstructural element of capitalism, it cannot be truly severed from it.
Care to explain why liberalism is so tightly nit with capitalism in your opinion? I cannot see a good reason.
I hate late-stage capitalism as much as the next guy, obviously.
Liberalism emerged as the ideological justification for capitalism, the two are intrinsically linked. The basic principles of liberalism are insividualism and free flow of capital. People have used liberalism to justify more progressive social views, but those social views are better represented by ideologies like Marxism-Leninism.
They may be better represented by marxis-leninism, but that does not mean they cannot be represented by liberalism. It's not so black and white.
I didn't suggest that they were black and white, my point is that liberalism's ties to capitalism are because that's the purpose of liberalism. It emerged as the capitalist class was rising as future justification for the transition from feudalism to capitalism. You cannot have a "liberal socialism," as liberalism is focused on private property rights.
The word ‘leftist’ entered the American lexicon in the lead-up to Trump’s first term. Before that it was commonly understood as a European word meaning something similar to liberal but more extreme and more locally focused within their respective countries. Now it seems to be still in flux, finding its particular American meaning without any previous word to replace.
Leftist has existed for a lot longer than that, this is absurd. There have been communists and anarchists in the US for centuries, there's nothing intrinsically European about the term.
uh what? Also, all the western trots in shambles right now 😆
Yes that shift occurred 10 years ago
^[citation^ ^needed]^
"Leftist" in 2000s Italy meant either a) communist or socialist party outside the established Communist parties, also mostly excluded from parliamentary politics...or b) lifestyle progressive in the extended network of 'a', also understood as "lite center-left". There is no way to quantify the "amount of Left" since these two meanings of the word are in opposite directions.
Understanding this in terms of US politics is a lost cause. This is the only correct response so far:
Different culture, different meaning. But if I had to, I would say that "b" above is the one introduced by the American far-right into the political discourse.
I've identified as a Leftist since ~2007. Well before Trump entered the American Zeitgeist..