Ferk

joined 5 years ago
[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I agree that your previous misunderstandings lead you to this one.

Fascist speech is to be exposed and criticised scientifically, not dogmatically. Your use of "protected" here implies something I do not defend.

I want to attack fascist speech, you want to hide it.. from my point of view I could also say you are the one protecting it.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Since its inception the term has been about adherence to party lines and enforcing ideological purity. The right wants to pretend they don't do it, so they want to attribute it to particular instances from the left, but they do the same thing all the time.

See the next paragraph on that same article you quote (Wikipedia, btw):

The phrase politically correct first appeared in the 1930s, when it was used to describe dogmatic adherence to ideology in totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.[5] Early usage of the term politically correct by leftists in the 1970s and 1980s was as self-critical satire;[8] usage was ironic, rather than a name for a serious political movement.[12][13][14] It was considered an in-joke among leftists used to satirise those who were too rigid in their adherence to political orthodoxy.[15] The modern pejorative usage of the term emerged from conservative criticism of the New Left in the late 20th century, with many describing it as a form of censorship.[16]

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

What? it's hard to tell what did you interpret this time ...but I hope you are not implying that politically correct language like "military operation" shows the whole truth, that "pacification" is the whole truth, that "terrorism" is the whole truth, that "re-education camps" are the whole truth, that "voluntary relocation" is the whole truth, that "austerity measures" are the whole truth.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

Science is not a fantasy, and wanting to call it a "marketplace" is proof of the misunderstanding. We have historic proof of the damage to the power of the workers that dogmatic censorship, "political correctness" (ie. hiding truth) and manipulation of public perception causes, we are seeing it right now first person in the west. Doing the same thing (and more overtly) is fighting dogma with dogma, even if the ideals from one of them were fully benevolent and made people happy.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago (9 children)

You are misunderstanding me and it has become clear that I'm not gonna get through you. We are talking in circles.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (11 children)

Censorship is a structural failure of the superstructure itself. I provided earlier a list of reasons of why I think this.

When we 'oppress' the bourgeoisie by silencing them, the censor’s hand is eventually covering the worker’s mouth & ears.

I’m not relying in just one specific article like it's a bible... I’m applying a scientific approach and relying on Marx’s belief that the dictatorship of the proletariat is the self-government of the producers. You cannot govern yourself if you are wearing a blindfold.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (13 children)

I agree with Marx there. But there is a massive difference between forcibly suppressing the economic power of the bourgeoisie (collectivizing their land) and suppressing the expression of ideas.

If you have already stripped the bourgeoisie of their factories and banks (or say.. gone as far as to kill them), their "speech" loses its power. If a state is still terrified of "fascist manipulation" after the revolution, then the state hasn't actually solved the material problems of the people.

A lot of socialists states failed because they were just a wolf in sheep's clothing and didn't actually solve the issues.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (15 children)

I think you are the one misinterpreting Marx's context and rejecting scientific methods to truth. If you believed in the scientific method you should support open study of truth like scientific socialism does, with the will of scientifically testing the paradigm, instead of supporting the establishment of dogmatic truths through control and coercion.

Marx’s scientific socialism defends that the state -any state- is a 'parasite' on society (he even believed the phrase "Communist State" was a contradiction).

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (17 children)

Are you implying that Marx was not making general claims about the nature of truth and the state, but that instead he was being opportunistic, like a tactician only interested in defending objective truth under the particular context of the state being openly capitalistic?

Truth IS objective reality. Again, you are conflating idealist ideas of truth with material truth.

If a socialist theory is true and scientific, it should be able to dismantle a fascist argument in front of a crowd of workers. If you have to put the fascist in jail to stop the workers from believing him, you are admitting that your "truth" isn't convincing enough to win on its own.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (19 children)

"The censored press has a demoralizing effect. ... The government hears only its own voice, it knows that it hears only its own voice, yet it harbors the illusion that it hears the voice of the people." Karl Marx

You say it's the "working classes" the ones censoring the speech, but you are falling into a "who watches the watchmen?" problem

Marx argued that the only way to truly defeat speech is to prove it wrong in the "light of day"

"If you do not believe in the victory of truth, you are committing a crime against truth."

"Truth is as little modest as light... Truth is universal, it does not belong to me, it belongs to all; it owns me, I do not own it."

Truth that requires a policeman to protect it from being challenged isn't actually truth at all.. but just some idealistic subjective point.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago (21 children)

No, he was in favor of giving the power to the working class, not to some elite that limits what the working class can do, learn about or be exposed to.

“The emancipation of the working classes must be conquered by the working classes themselves.”

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (23 children)

"The free press is the ubiquitous vigilant eye of a people's soul, the embodiment of a people's faith in itself, the eloquent link that connects the individual with the state and the world... It is the mind of the state that can be delivered into every cottage more cheaply than material gas." Karl Marx

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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by Ferk@lemmy.ml to c/rpg@lemmy.ml
 

It compiles materials from multiple books by Michael E. Shea: the Lazy Dungeon Master, the Lazy GM's Workbook and the Lazy GM Companion.

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