BB_C

joined 2 years ago
[–] BB_C@programming.dev 2 points 4 days ago

Author couldn't help himself but do some "wisdomry" at the end!

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 2 points 4 days ago

That's a question of API, not type system. And FD types (e.g. OwnedFd, BorrowedFd) are already in std.

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago

There is the odd (genuine) security issue tbf. But they are more of the variant:

"If an attacker is close enough to sneak that on me, then I'm probably already screwed."

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why are you hallucinating facts?

  • There is no "team of 200 rust developers".
  • " developer" is not an identity.
  • uutils is not a "professional" project, as in people are paid by the (non-existing) uutils company to work on it.
  • The project started as personal hobby of one person during COVID, There were no 200 contributors who sprung up magically and simultaneously from the start.

They wanted to avoid the “politics” and are not entertaining comments or explaining their decisions. It’s not up for discussion.

If you think you saw a group of 200 people starting uutils and doing this. You should seek medical help.

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The "reported upstream" link is broken (fixed link).

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 0 points 1 week ago

Why does emit() take an owned E value?

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 2 points 2 weeks ago

mostly compatible with C

It's not mostly compatible, not even on the surface level, with any version of C post C89. And most of the ever-growing crap in the language came after the early years anyway, with constructs that are C++-exclusive.

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

compatible with C

myth

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 1 points 4 weeks ago

I will let you expand on this before responding to both:

And also, cargo.toml has inconsistencies and double-standards.

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

Not cargo per se, but even the tutorial for a cli-tool is like “setup clap, which has 20 dependencies and a kitchen sink”. The whole (cargo-centric) ecosystem is much like Node, with the same problems.

cargo new with-clap
cd with-clap
cargo add clap --no-default-features
% cargo tree
with-clap v0.1.0 (/tmp/with-clap)
└── clap v4.6.0
    └── clap_builder v4.6.0
        ├── anstyle v1.0.14
        └── clap_lex v1.1.0

And also, cargo.toml has inconsistencies and double-standards.

Can you expand on that?

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Why do you think cargo is a problem?

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 1 points 1 month ago

Not sure how are you and @kibiz0r@midwest.social coming up with these concerns.

The only correct way to package such software is to vendor dependencies (packaged together or separately). And you can trivially change the sonames of vendored deps in your build scripts so that there are no conflicts whatsoever (I dual-package some stuff against an upstream and a fork and do just that). So dynamic vs. static is not the crux of the issue. The primary concerns are that distributors hate vendoring, irrespective of whether the vendored libs are linked in statically or dynamically. Distributors also hate potentially diverging forks maintained by random downstreams, which is what "patched dependencies" effectively are.

There is always room for some leeway of course, but that would depend on how relevant your software is, and/or whether a maintainer would want to take that burden on.

And finally, sometimes, such dependencies may provide added value that trumps all these concerns. So judging these things is always situational.

 

Every programming problem I have, when I track it down to it's source, seems to originate with C/C++. It wasn't till a few years ago that I realized how seriously everything I do somehow, some way, has C/C++ as a foundation. Basically every zero-day exploit in my cyber security class is because of something stupid in C/C++. And it goes well beyond security, the more I dive into C++ the more terrible stuff I find. When I found out even Rust needed the clib, it was like seeing an iron-clad fortress only to look closer and see it was being held up by sticks, ducktape, and prayers.

 

https://nlnet.nl/news/2025/20250321-call-announcement-core.html

Notes

  1. Projects meaningfully sharing two programming languages get 0.5 a point each, even if the split is not exactly half-half.
  2. Two projects are listed under "Multi/Misc/Other" which is opinionated, and some may disagree with.
  3. Three points (5 projects) are assigned to "Unaccounted/Not Available". Two of the projects have no code at all (related to the grant, or otherwise). One project with no published code is (charitably) listed under "Python", however, since the author mentions Python+QT as the choice for implementation.

9.5 (10 projects) Rust

https://git.joyofhardware.com/Products/FastWave2.0
https://github.com/slint-ui/slint
https://github.com/stalwartlabs/mail-server
https://github.com/dimforge
https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz
https://github.com/fdtshim
https://github.com/trynova/nova
https://github.com/yaws-rs
https://github.com/lycheeverse/lychee
https://git.syndicate-lang.org/synit/synit
(0.5 rust, 0.5 shell)

9 Python (8 + 1 project without code)

https://github.com/owasp-dep-scan/blint
https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt
https://github.com/niccokunzmann/open-web-calendar
https://git.xmpp-it.net/sch/Rivista
https://github.com/DataLab-Platform/DataLab
https://codeberg.org/IzzyOnDroid/rbtlog
https://gitlab.com/py3dtiles/py3dtiles
https://codeberg.org/flohmarkt/flohmarkt
https://rackweaver.app/
(says python+qt, but no code yet)

6 (7 projects) C

https://mntre.com/sources.html
https://github.com/open-sdr/openwifi
https://wiki.musl-libc.org/
https://github.com/LekKit/RVVM
https://github.com/skarnet/s6-rc
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/mes
(scheme interpreter, compiler + minimal libc in C = 0.5)
https://www.gnunet.org/
(gnunet itself is C = 0.5, Anroid work would presumably use Java/Kotlin/Dart/... = 0.5 unaccounted)

3.5 (4 projects) TypeScript

https://github.com/cartesapp/cartes
https://github.com/edumeet
https://github.com/adorsys/open-banking-gateway
(0.5 Java, 0.5 TypeScript)
https://github.com/janeirodigital/sai-js
(grant is about specification work. But implementation is in TypeScript)

3.5 (4 projects) Java

https://github.com/slovensko-digital/autogram
https://github.com/igniterealtime/Openfire
https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/MarginaliaSearch
https://github.com/adorsys/open-banking-gateway
(0.5 Java, 0.5 TypeScript)

3 Kotlin

https://github.com/florisboard/florisboard
https://github.com/EventFahrplan/EventFahrplan
https://github.com/tuskyapp/Tusky

2.5 (3 projects) Hardware/Verilog/...

https://github.com/opera-platform/opera-dsp
https://github.com/simple-crypto/SMAesH
https://github.com/IObundle/iob-versat
(hardware part = 0.5, software is C++)

2.5 (3 projects) Scheme

https://codeberg.org/spritely/goblins
https://nlnet.nl/project/SchemeTestingFramework
(no external link in grant page)
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/mes
(scheme interpreter, compiler + minimal libc in C = 0.5)

2.5 (3 projects) JavaScript

https://github.com/CycloneDX/cdxgen
https://github.com/overte-org/overte
(0.5 C++, 0.5 JS)
https://nlnet.nl/project/TALER-integration-Nuxt
(no external link)

2 Nix

https://nlnet.nl/project/Nix-ControlPlane
https://github.com/ibizaman/selfhostblocks
(no external link)

2 Go

https://github.com/namecoin/encaya
(namecoint-core is written in C++, but the grant is about encaya)
https://github.com/hockeypuck/hockeypuck

1.5 (3 projects) C++

https://github.com/IObundle/iob-versat
(software part = 0.5, hardware is Verilog)
https://github.com/overte-org/overte
(0.5 C++, 0.5 JS)
https://kde.org/plasma-desktop
(grant is about mobile power management improvements, no idea about the code, but KDE/Plasma is C++, so charitable 0.5 for C++, 0.5 unaccounted)

1 Clojure

https://github.com/NyanCAD/Mosaic

1 Assembly

https://lib25519.cr.yp.to/
(grant covers NEON vector implementation)

1 Haskell

https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals

1 Julia

https://github.com/PeaceFounder/AppBundler.jl

0.5 Shell

https://git.syndicate-lang.org/synit/synit
(0.5 rust, 0.5 shell)

2* Multi/Misc/Other

https://github.com/IObundle/iob-linux
(build project, a mix of python, Make, and C from OpenSBI)
https://unifiedpush.org/
(specification for Android and D-Bus. Implementations in Go, C, Kotlin, and Flutter)

3* (5 projects) Unaccounted/Not Available

https://www.gnunet.org/
(possible non-native Android yet to be written)
https://kde.org/plasma-desktop
(grant is about mobile power management improvements, no idea about the code but, KDE/Plasma is C++, so 0.5 for C++, 0.5 unaccounted)
https://nlnet.nl/project/LicenseCompatibilityAutomation
(no external link or specific info about the implementation)
https://librediagnostic.com/
(fully unaccounted, site pages "under construction")
https://github.com/mapterhorn
(fully unaccounted, from org readme "Coming soon...")

 

https://nlnet.nl/news/2025/20250321-call-announcement-core.html

Notes

  1. Projects meaningfully sharing two programming languages get 0.5 a point each, even if the split is not exactly half-half.
  2. Two projects are listed under "Multi/Misc/Other" which is opinionated, and some may disagree with.
  3. Three points (5 projects) are assigned to "Unaccounted/Not Available". Two of the projects have no code at all (related to the grant, or otherwise). One project with no published code is (charitably) listed under "Python", however, since the author mentions Python+QT as the choice for implementation.

9.5 (10 projects) Rust

https://git.joyofhardware.com/Products/FastWave2.0
https://github.com/slint-ui/slint
https://github.com/stalwartlabs/mail-server
https://github.com/dimforge
https://github.com/DioxusLabs/blitz
https://github.com/fdtshim
https://github.com/trynova/nova
https://github.com/yaws-rs
https://github.com/lycheeverse/lychee
https://git.syndicate-lang.org/synit/synit
(0.5 rust, 0.5 shell)

9 Python (8 + 1 project without code)

https://github.com/owasp-dep-scan/blint
https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt
https://github.com/niccokunzmann/open-web-calendar
https://git.xmpp-it.net/sch/Rivista
https://github.com/DataLab-Platform/DataLab
https://codeberg.org/IzzyOnDroid/rbtlog
https://gitlab.com/py3dtiles/py3dtiles
https://codeberg.org/flohmarkt/flohmarkt
https://rackweaver.app/
(says python+qt, but no code yet)

6 (7 projects) C

https://mntre.com/sources.html
https://github.com/open-sdr/openwifi
https://wiki.musl-libc.org/
https://github.com/LekKit/RVVM
https://github.com/skarnet/s6-rc
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/mes
(scheme interpreter, compiler + minimal libc in C = 0.5)
https://www.gnunet.org/
(gnunet itself is C = 0.5, Anroid work would presumably use Java/Kotlin/Dart/... = 0.5 unaccounted)

3.5 (4 projects) TypeScript

https://github.com/cartesapp/cartes
https://github.com/edumeet
https://github.com/adorsys/open-banking-gateway
(0.5 Java, 0.5 TypeScript)
https://github.com/janeirodigital/sai-js
(grant is about specification work. But implementation is in TypeScript)

3.5 (4 projects) Java

https://github.com/slovensko-digital/autogram
https://github.com/igniterealtime/Openfire
https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/MarginaliaSearch
https://github.com/adorsys/open-banking-gateway
(0.5 Java, 0.5 TypeScript)

3 Kotlin

https://github.com/florisboard/florisboard
https://github.com/EventFahrplan/EventFahrplan
https://github.com/tuskyapp/Tusky

2.5 (3 projects) Hardware/Verilog/...

https://github.com/opera-platform/opera-dsp
https://github.com/simple-crypto/SMAesH
https://github.com/IObundle/iob-versat
(hardware part = 0.5, software is C++)

2.5 (3 projects) Scheme

https://codeberg.org/spritely/goblins
https://nlnet.nl/project/SchemeTestingFramework
(no external link in grant page)
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/mes
(scheme interpreter, compiler + minimal libc in C = 0.5)

2.5 (3 projects) JavaScript

https://github.com/CycloneDX/cdxgen
https://github.com/overte-org/overte
(0.5 C++, 0.5 JS)
https://nlnet.nl/project/TALER-integration-Nuxt
(no external link)

2 Nix

https://nlnet.nl/project/Nix-ControlPlane
https://github.com/ibizaman/selfhostblocks
(no external link)

2 Go

https://github.com/namecoin/encaya
(namecoint-core is written in C++, but the grant is about encaya)
https://github.com/hockeypuck/hockeypuck

1.5 (3 projects) C++

https://github.com/IObundle/iob-versat
(software part = 0.5, hardware is Verilog)
https://github.com/overte-org/overte
(0.5 C++, 0.5 JS)
https://kde.org/plasma-desktop
(grant is about mobile power management improvements, no idea about the code, but KDE/Plasma is C++, so charitable 0.5 for C++, 0.5 unaccounted)

1 Clojure

https://github.com/NyanCAD/Mosaic

1 Assembly

https://lib25519.cr.yp.to/
(grant covers NEON vector implementation)

1 Haskell

https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals

1 Julia

https://github.com/PeaceFounder/AppBundler.jl

0.5 Shell

https://git.syndicate-lang.org/synit/synit
(0.5 rust, 0.5 shell)

2* Multi/Misc/Other

https://github.com/IObundle/iob-linux
(build project, a mix of python, Make, and C from OpenSBI)
https://unifiedpush.org/
(specification for Android and D-Bus. Implementations in Go, C, Kotlin, and Flutter)

3* (5 projects) Unaccounted/Not Available

https://www.gnunet.org/
(possible non-native Android yet to be written)
https://kde.org/plasma-desktop
(grant is about mobile power management improvements, no idea about the code but, KDE/Plasma is C++, so 0.5 for C++, 0.5 unaccounted)
https://nlnet.nl/project/LicenseCompatibilityAutomation
(no external link or specific info about the implementation)
https://librediagnostic.com/
(fully unaccounted, site pages "under construction")
https://github.com/mapterhorn
(fully unaccounted, from org readme "Coming soon...")

 

I added this language to my watch list some time ago and forgot about it, until I got a notification about a new release (0.15) yesterday.

I'm someone who is familiar with system languages (C, Rust) and shell languages (Bash, Zsh, ..). But don't have much experience, at a proficient level, with any languages setting in between.

So I gave Koto's language guide a read, and found it to be very well-written, and the premise of the language in general to be interesting. I only got annoyed near the end when I got to @base, because I'm an anti-OOP diehard 😉

I hope this one well start to enjoy some adoption.

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