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The original was posted on /r/permaculture by /u/AgreeableHamster252 on 2025-11-03 11:00:21+00:00.
I am finishing up season one of my food forest and preparing to grow more support plants, especially nitrogen fixers. How much is going to be needed to actually make a difference? I suppose on a per-tree or per guild basis.
I am planning on using some combination of river locust, goumi, sea buckthorn, fava beans, Lupines, and clover.
Will some clover and lupines around the dripline plus one of the shrubs be enough? Do I need a full field of clover to make a difference? Do I need like 5 support shrubs for each tree? It’s so hard to find any rigorous info here rather than vague suggestions.
To try to help inform “it depends” answers, here’s as much info as I can provide:
Fairly acidic soil, western NY, fairly low nitrogen but high PK soil, clay but well draining thanks to rocks, and a very wide variety of crop trees ranging from hazelnuts and heartnuts to mulberries, apples, persimmons and pawpaw.
Also, will it take years for the nitrogen fixation to be noticeable at all? I assume so. If so does it make sense to provide some initial supplemental nitrogen early on?