Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
view the rest of the comments
Given the cost of fuel, a bus pass for me (if I still had to commute, I work from home now) for a month is now just over $800/mo.
6 years ago, that was $375/mo.
I don't think the issue is limited to car drivers, I suspect more than a few folks who took public transit with me are looking at a pretty impactful monthly cost.
Trains. Overhead wire. Green energy. Build it now or suffer later.
I agree.
That does nothing to address the current (rapidly rising) commuting costs happening now, though.
We need Americans to feel the pain hard enough they screen for trains
Would be wonderful.
Unfortunately the time to do it was years ago. Obviously the next best time is to start now, but it will be years before results and that doesnt help those impacted now.
We need to Americans to come to psychologically distrust driving.
Way too much land, way too little education, and way too much selfishness to allow for that.
Buy a bike. Carpool. Work from home.
Militarize against police for eviction defense?
I think you missed the part where I pointed out that I do work from home.
I'd also point out that riding a bike for the commutes I'm mentioning is a non-starter, its too large of a distance for a daily commuter ride.
Again, the point is that this is not a car commuter exclusive problem, and its going to impact people who use mass transit. There are plenty of train lines that aren't powered and require dual electric/diesel engines. Infrastructure installation to extend lines takes time, not to mention the lack of rail infrastructure in the first place that impacts the overwhelming majority of the US.
You didn’t mention this: what distance did you have in mind?
The current average commute for my state is about 15mi, but that number (annoyingly) includes WFH which skews the numbers.
Mine, for example, would be a 60mi commute if I still had one.
Edit: And I don't think I should have to really mention that the overwhelming majority of commuters are leaving their town for work....
Well, that’s the core problem. No one should be commuting for an hour by car.
Yes, obviously its the fault of the individuals who were living somewhere and got a better job further away.
Clearly the problem is that, and nothing else.
Also, at no point was I discussing driving a car.
Edit: Actually, I did mention driving further away to a bus or train and parking there, so yes, I did mention driving a car. But not for the commute itself.
You found blame that was not there. The fault is with the car-centric design of our society and the false convenience of driving, not with the people taking jobs where they can get them.
When you put it to "no one should be driving an hour by car" in a discussion about the more than doubling price of bus fare for bus commuting, I'm going to find it very hard to understand what youre trying to say.
And considering you commented on a person driving for an hour, rather than on the rapidly increasing commuting costs for all commuters, or the larger issues driving those increases, I'm going to find it real hard to believe youre doing anything but putting blame on an individual.
That’s fair. I’d have perhaps phrased it more clearly as “society should put no one in a position where they feel that they must travel 60 miles [an hour by car] twice daily for work” but that feels a bit unwieldy.
I'd say thats generally more of a larger issue, yeah.
But just to mention, in the NYC area, just 3 miles outside of NYC can take an hour all by itself.
Either way - fuel costs are impacting mass transit riders too. Saying "just take the bus instead" helps no one when those bus costs are rapidly rising as well. And the same goes for trains when not all of them are electrified for the full run.
The effect of fuel costs on mass transit is much smaller than on personal motor vehicles though. So yeah, “just take the bus” is a pretty big step in the right direction, relatively speaking.
Here is the title of the post:
Here is my first comment:
So no, its not. Its a massively increasing cost that is continuing to trend upward.
Its about as helpful to folks who are being impacted by this as "Just don't go to work!" or "Ride a bike for 50 miles each way every day, problem solved!"
What "just take the bus" does is shift the blame onto the individual being impacted, made worse by the fact that many of those impacted by these rising costs are already taking mass transit. This isn't a "car" problem. This is a "commuter" problem.
And you think that the fare increase there is driven by fuel costs alone? Or even that fuel cost is in any way a significant portion of the change?
Not. A. Chance.
A good chunk of it is, actually.
When the cost of fuel goes down, so does the cost of the pass. The price of diesel has nearly doubled in the past year, and about to hit a new record high. And that has mostly happened in the past month and change.
Pretending fuel costs aren't a factor is foolish.
The rest of it, however, is a direct result of other stupid policies.
I will repeat myself yet again - the rising costs of commuting are impacting far more than just car drivers, and fuel costs soaring are a part of that.
No I was saying everyone should quit their impractical far drive jobs and build rail lines outside their front doors on spec with their savings instead of paying rent don't put words in my mouth!
Yes I did where was it
That's a hell of a take
You pissed in your bed America. I was telling you to stop now you're too tired to stand and complaining about all the piss.
Very first sentence.
Also, don't make shit up and fake quote because you misread and want to be shitty about it.
Okay so you don't have a problem what ate you complaining about
Ride that bike 20 miles to work. Easy!
I do know a guy who rides his bike everywhere and he is HOT. Saw him in a suit and he has the kind of body that suits were designed to flatter. Wow.
Some people do they're in great shape from all the biking and don't need gym memberships
You want infrastructure the nerds have been shouting about since it was torn up 81 years ago and infrastructure to make this not happen again or not matter takes time which is why we didn't want it torn up and then wanted to build it back maybe listen to us next time
You ignored my last suggestion of quitting the job and joining with your neighbors to ban evictions in your community.
We had electric buses with overhead wires in São Paulo in the 80s.
The US had electric interurban railroads in the Rockies a hundred years ago.
It can happen very fast.
No I'm sorry I'm informed that trains do jot ql4eady exist and so cannot exist
What.... the fuck....? Where do you live that this costs 800 FREAKING DOLLARS???
Northeast US.
The bus stop by me also was shut down, so if I were to do it now, I'd have to drive 25min east. The parking is limited though, so either its pay someone for a monthly parking spot, get there early enough (5:50am, after that its unlikely you'll find a spot), or get dropped off. Or take the risk of a parking ticket I suppose.
Or I could drive 15 min west, away from where I'd be going, and pay an hourly rate for parking. About $25/day, or a monthly cost of ~$250 (last I checked with someone who goes this route). It'll add another $30/mo to the commuter pass for the bus as well.
(EDIT: Just checked out of curiosity - and no more monthly parking there, its now only flat rate of $2.50/hr. There are other lots a block or two away in a few directions that may still offer monthly, but I couldn't say.)
If I drive for about 30 minutes, I can get to a train station where its $400/mo, though the parking cost there is higher at $300/mo, my cousin does that ride but his wife drops him off.
These are not uncommon costs for commuting into major cities.
That is horrifying. I can get a monthly transit pass in my city for $88, which is actually down from 10 years ago, when it was $100.
There's the difference. Most people aren't commuting inside the city. If I were to live in the city where my job is, commuting would be drastically cheaper (though I'd also just bike it, but thats a different matter).
The cost of living there, though, is astronomically high. It also wouldn't work out for my wife, who works more in the agricultural industry, not even getting into the other factors like public schools/quality of education, air quality, etc.
It been a lonnngg time, but in 2008 a 30 day bus pass was $45 in connecticut. brb, gonna go look it up.
https://www.cttransit.com/fares $63 bucks
edit edit, I see you are accounting for.. your parking too. well, thats.. different.
In 2008, I think the train pass for where I was then would have been $65/mo
Now that pass is... (Checking).... Oof, $100 for the weekly, $295 for the monthly.
on a bus? what state?
idk why a train is so much more, I think I am comparing apples to oranges here, apologies, ill hush now.
I was just commenting on the train pass I had at that time with the last comment.
And NJ. NJT doesnt run everywhere (honestly it runs very little outside of a few counties IMO), there are companies that service a large portion of the state as NJT registered operators.
I took mass transit the moment I went more than a few miles (of course it also jumped to a 30mi each way commute at that point), but ive been pure WFH for a long while now.
That said, the increases in bus costs of late directly caused by the increases in fuel costs are astounding. A lot of people are going to be hurt by this.
My main point in this thread has been simple - its not just car drivers impacted by fuel costs. Commuters taking mass transit are already being hit by it, and its going to get worse.
Yeah. I feel very lucky to have moved to a place where I have an electric train and an electric bus system powered by hydroelectric.
Oh wait, climate change means our glacial flow is 12% of the typical rate and the province is announcing a datacenter construction plan?
Well fuck me too I guess.
Wait. Where are you that a bus pass changes price based on fuel?
Northeast US.
Costs go up -> price goes up.
Commenting for update on response ^
?
What update are you expecting here?
Your response to that comment. I wanted to know, so I used a comment as a bookmark.